Mephisto MM V

[Adam Hair]

As noted in this thread:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 73&t=31660

MM V can be played as a Winboard engine in Arena. Here is the results
of a short test I ran:

4'3" time control
Pentium IV 2.8 GHz
Start positions come from Albert Silver, Jon Dart, Franklin T, and Marc Lacrosse
Ponder off
Arena 2.01
I did not use the "-nommunlimited" command. Thus, MM V ran as fast as
possible on this computer.

Code: Select all

1 MM5                       : 246 (+144,= 34,- 68), 65.4 %

Beaches                       :  24 (+ 11,=  3,- 10), 52.1 %
TSCP181                       :  25 (+ 12,=  2,- 11), 52.0 %
Nero_61                       :  25 (+ 22,=  1,-  2), 90.0 %
Pentagon_12                   :  25 (+ 13,=  9,-  3), 70.0 %
Needle_0531                   :  25 (+ 10,=  6,-  9), 52.0 %
Bace_045                      :  25 (+ 16,=  4,-  5), 72.0 %
DChess1_0_2                   :  25 (+ 14,=  5,-  6), 66.0 %
Yawce016                      :  24 (+ 14,=  0,- 10), 58.3 %
LarsenVB                      :  24 (+ 19,=  2,-  3), 83.3 %
Storm                         :  24 (+ 13,=  2,-  9), 58.3 %

I had to adjudicate several of MM V wins due to time loses. I'll have to
investigate whether the program hung up or if it is a timing issue between
MM V and Arena.

The games can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/kzmz1dn3k ... esting.pgn

[Spacious_Mind]

Hi Adam,

That is really cool, thanks a lot for your post.

oldies fan regards

Nick

[Adam Hair]

Hi Adam,

That is really cool, thanks a lot for your post.

oldies fan regards

Nick

You are welcome, Nick. I am a newbie when it comes to computer chess,
though I have owned a couple of dedicated machines in the past. I hope
that in the future that some more of the older programs will be modified
to play in Winboard and/or Arena.

By the way, I will run another gauntlet with MM V. Obviously I underestimated
its strength, so I will choose moderately stronger opponents.

PS
Even though I have not posted in your thread, I am enthralled by your
tournament and the history it represents. Thank you for that.

Adam

[Spacious_Mind]

Hi Adam,

That is really cool, thanks a lot for your post.

oldies fan regards

Nick

You are welcome, Nick. I am a newbie when it comes to computer chess,
though I have owned a couple of dedicated machines in the past. I hope
that in the future that some more of the older programs will be modified
to play in Winboard and/or Arena.

By the way, I will run another gauntlet with MM V. Obviously I underestimated
its strength, so I will choose moderately stronger opponents.

PS
Even though I have not posted in your thread, I am enthralled by your
tournament and the history it represents. Thank you for that.

Adam

Hi Adam,

Thanks a lot for your kind words.

You might ask the original Poster, if others can be added to work with Arena. I know that MMIV which has different playing style and Mephisto III Glasgow have also been emulated for Mess. Therefore it is likely that the same procedure might work for those.

I have mixed feeling about Emulating dedicated computers because I collect them, but since the author of MMIV and MMV has released them for use with emulators my mixed feelings are not too mixed

Besides it does give you an opportunity to see what they might have been capable of in todays world. To fit the program into 32K rom including Book as in the case of MMIV and MMV and play at the strengths they did at 5 Mhz or less were all pretty neat achievements.

Best regards

Nick

[Steve B]

I have mixed feeling about Emulating dedicated computers because I collect them, but since the author of MMIV and MMV has released them for use with emulators my mixed feelings are not too mixed

Hi Adam ,Nick

Actually i also have mixed feelings about emulations
of course it is not as bad as actually Modifying a dedicated computer which would then require the Scachcomputer Police to be called in to investigate
a commonly seen modification of the MMV is the MMV running at 10 Mhz which Mephisto never released for sale(normal is 5 Mhz)

emulations however could be a good thing i think because it might entice some CC enthusiasts to take a look at the old engines where they might other wise never even know about them
of course emulations are nothing like having the real thing even if they play stronger

i wonder..does the MMV emulation also include the HG 550 book module for the MMV?


Untouched Regards
Steve

[Spacious_Mind]

I have mixed feeling about Emulating dedicated computers because I collect them, but since the author of MMIV and MMV has released them for use with emulators my mixed feelings are not too mixed

Hi Adam ,Nick

Actually i also have mixed feelings about emulations
of course it is not as bad as actually Modifying a dedicated computer which would then require the Scachcomputer Police to be called in to investigate
a commonly seen modification of the MMV is the MMV running at 10 Mhz which Mephisto never released for sale(normal is 5 Mhz)

emulations however could be a good thing i think because it might entice some CC enthusiasts to take a look at the old engines where they might other wise never even know about them
of course emulations are nothing like having the real thing even if they play stronger

i wonder..does the MMV emulation also include the HG 550 book module for the MMV?


Untouched Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

Well, I am not a complete purist (haven't been fully converted yet ) But, I am getting closer as time passes

A couple which I absolutely do not regret getting but which I know you would really tut at are Steinitz 4 Mhz and Steinitz Encore 4 Mhz. The temptation to see a Steinitz 4MHz module actually work as a 4 MHz and actually play normal at 4 MHz (not speeded up quarz) was too much for an easily tempted person like me But, both are doubles in my collection with originals intact. In the case of the Encore, it was failing anyway, overheating badly and on off switch almost a total breakdown, so I dont regret changing it to a Steinitz Encore, since it now plays like a new machine straight out of the box. Your English namesake is a genius at fixing these. The GGM 4 MHz I bought because if you recall when it was first offered in UK Ebay, the curiosity of it working as a 4 MHz was just too tempting for me, a lowly person who likes to play games

I tried the MMV & MMIV Emulator when it first came out a couple of years ago, but it was just briefly, I just didn't like it much. So I am not sure (failing memory) but I think the Book Module was included (not sure though).

Now that you can play it with Arena does make it very interesting to play against engines in Tournaments at full speed.

Sheepish regards

Nick

[Adam Hair]

Hi Steve. I do not see separate book modules in what I downloaded.

Also included in what I downloaded are MM IV, Glascow, MM Rebel5, and
MM50. Unfortunately, only the MM V and MM IV ROMs were included.

As far as emulator vs real thing, I wish that I had the real thing

[Spacious_Mind]

Hi Steve. I do not see separate book modules in what I downloaded.

Also included in what I downloaded are MM IV, Glascow, MM Rebel5, and
MM50. Unfortunately, only the MM V and MM IV ROMs were included.

As far as emulator vs real thing, I wish that I had the real thing

Hi Adam,

You might be right. There was a lot of discussions posted at the time when they came out and I thought I read it as MMV HG550 but perhaps not.

ps... at higher speed I have seen good results posted for the MMIV. I think Steve even played against one once in a Tournament which ran at 18 MHz. So you should include it in your test it might actually surprise us and be a little stronger than the MMV.


Regards

Nick

[Adam Hair]

Hey Nick and Steve. I know that you are completely unbiased in regards to
modern programs vs older programs, so let me ask you a question. Do any
of the modern engines impress you in its playing style? Does there exist
a modern engine that you wish were the brain of a dedicated machine?

[Spacious_Mind]

Hey Nick and Steve. I know that you are completely unbiased in regards to
modern programs vs older programs, so let me ask you a question. Do any
of the modern engines impress you in its playing style? Does there exist
a modern engine that you wish were the brain of a dedicated machine?

Hi Adam,

You know that is an unfair question To answer that would show a bias to what I like, which might not be what you like or someone else would like.

But to answer your question differently, I like simple or minimalistic things, therefore programs that might seem super strong at high speed, but then when they are slowed down they make more mistakes then a well written chess program that is not as strong at high speed, gives me the impression that something basic has been sacrificed somewhere. I like to see good programs that play good chess at low search depths period, because that for my enjoyment reflects well for the chess skill (from a human playing against program perspective) of the programmer and I don't mean that as disrespectful to anyone, and it is just my opinion, because heck every program that has ever been written is a million times better than what I could do since I have never attempted to do one and I can just picture how hard it is and time consuming. It is a different science/hobby/interest all in it's own and probably very rewarding for the creator to see it's creation grow from an infant into an adult.

So if you want an indication of the engines that I enjoy for their minimalistic chess skill, old ones and newer ones you might just have to follow the tables of my 5 ply tournament as it progresses

I hope it doesn't make sense regards

Nick