Double Stockfish with CCC as Boss vs. Houdini 3 Match.

[mwyoung]

Stockfish 2.3.1 set on 2 pv will move at 10 minuets a move with 4GB Hash and CCC will Pick the best candidate move. Stockfish + CCC as boss Est. Elo = 3381

CCC can use any and all devices to decide the best candidate move to vote on for Stockfish.

Houdini 3 will move at 5 minuets a move with 4GB Hash and bitbases .
Est. Elo 3286.

CCC has 24 hours to vote on each move.

Start position was picked at random for the nunn 2 list by my daughter.

Test Theory:

Strength of the man-machine-team
= strength of the programs
+ 200 Elo points improvement
+/- 50 Elo points deviation.

This estimate should hold also for 3-Hirn teams with other human controllers of average club strength instead of me. The strength of 3-Hirn is a result of synergy: Tactical power of the computers and human long-range planning supplement very well. Furthermore the human may bring in his or her psychological skills, and he is more or less able to avoid positions which are not well understood by the computers.


[d]r1b2rk1/pp2bppp/2n1pn2/q2p4/2P2B2/P1N1PN2/1PQ2PPP/2KR1B1R w - - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 2.3.1 JA 64bit SSE4.2:

1. = (0.08): 11.Kb1 a6 12.Nd2 Qb6 13.Nb3 Bd7 14.g4 Rac8 15.c5 Qa7 16.g5 Ng4 17.Bd3 f5 18.gxf6 Nxf6 19.Rhg1 Kh8 20.Rg3 e5 21.Bg5
2. = (0.00): 11.h3 a6 12.cxd5 exd5 13.Kb1 Be6 14.Ng5 Rfc8 15.g4 Qb6 16.Na4 Qa5 17.Nc3

[acase]

Mark,

In this particular position (as a Centaur and knowing that I was playing against a program) I would probably try something "silly" like 1.g4 .

[mwyoung]

Mark,

In this particular position (as a Centaur and knowing that I was playing against a program) I would probably try something "silly" like 1.g4 .

We are testing the idea that a computer + humans combo is 200 elo stronger then just the computer alone when the humans can pick between 2 candidate best moves of the computer program.

We are testing what is called the double-frtiz with boss. But here the program is stockfish.

**In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.**

Here the boss is CCC members and they can use programs or just themselves to pick the candidate move to vote on.

[acase]

Mark,

In this particular position (as a Centaur and knowing that I was playing against a program) I would probably try something "silly" like 1.g4 .

We are testing the idea that a computer + humans combo is 200 elo stronger then just the computer alone when the humans can pick between 2 candidate best moves of the computer program.

We are testing what is called the double-frtiz with boss. But here the program is stockfish.

**In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.**

Here the boss is CCC members and they can use programs or just themselves to pick the candidate move to vote on.

Well, of course I understood that is what you are doing, but a true computer + humans vs a computer doesn't limit itself to just 2 candidate moves, nor does it only allow just one program + human to choose over just 2 candidate moves (the one program being Stockfish, which of course is an outstanding program in itself). In order to trully test this thesis I would think you would be more open to suggestions or candidate moves from others, however I do concede that this is your test and you reserve the right to do it as you please (or as you did it in 1996).


Your thesis is that ches is 100% tactics which I agree with you for the most part and that engines are much better than humans because they are much better at tactics, however, I think that a good human + engine combo is better than just a program.

To sum up here: I think that the human (with computer assistance) should be allowed to choose their own candidate move(s) and not be subject to what the particular program opponent you are using thinks are the best 2 moves.

[mwyoung]

We are testing this protocol from the 3-hirn website...not something else

**In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.**

[michiguel]

Mark,

In this particular position (as a Centaur and knowing that I was playing against a program) I would probably try something "silly" like 1.g4 .

We are testing the idea that a computer + humans combo is 200 elo stronger then just the computer alone when the humans can pick between 2 candidate best moves of the computer program.

This is going to prove nothing, but it will be a lot of fun. BTW, this is an idea of yours, and it is not related to the 3-hirn, to be clear. Anyway, let's all people play (the other forum is for discussing the theory of this).

Miguel
[MODERATION]
Let's keep this thread CLEAN.

We are testing what is called the double-frtiz with boss. But here the program is stockfish.

**In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.**

Here the boss is CCC members and they can use programs or just themselves to pick the candidate move to vote on.