Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013.
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gerold
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Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
In a world chess championship. Anything can happen. It all depends on how well the players have prepared for the match and also how well one player may play vs. another single player. How well anyone may play at the time of the matches. So many variables to consider with top rated players on any given day.
If Anand wins will that make the rating system invalid in some cases?
If Anand wins will that make the rating system invalid in some cases?
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Laskos
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- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
Interesting, Jesus. The folks who are betting in UK give 2 to Anand and 4/11 to Carlsen, in percentages, 69% to Carlsen and 31% to Anand.Ajedrecista wrote:Hello:
I took a look to this recent article and I decided to do my own simulations under the same assumptions (I did not take into account colour influences; a simulation is finished when there is a 6-6 result or one of the players has more than 6 points).
The first one:
I took a draw ratio of 66% and a win ratio (from Carlsen's POV) of ~ 29.625% (in other words, an Elo difference of 2862 - 2775 = 87 Elo). I got the following results after 100,000 simulations:Matthew S. Wilson wrote:Anand–Carlsen 2013
A 12 game match is far shorter than my recommended 26 games, so should we be worried that the weaker player might win by chance? Normally this would be a concern, but here there is one factor working in our favor: a relatively wide gap in the ratings. On the September rating list, Carlsen is rated 2862 and Anand is at 2775. According to the ratings formula, Carlsen is expected to score 0.62 points per game on average in the match. Since Anand is so much lower rated than Carlsen, it is unlikely that he can score an upset even in such a brief match.
So what will happen? Let’s run some simulations of the match. In their classical games, 20 out of 29 were drawn, so the 66% draw rate is still a reasonable assumption. Of the remaining nine games, Anand actually has the edge: six wins, three losses. However, several of his victories occurred before Carlsen reached his full strength; Carlsen won both of the last two decisive games. The ratings system forecasts that Carlsen will average 0.62 points per game. If we combine this with the 66% draw rate assumption, then in each game Carlsen has a 29% chance of winning and 5% chance of losing. Here are the results from running 40,000 simulations of the match:
Code: Select all
Probability that Carlsen wins 90.6% Probability that Carlsen wins by a statistically significant margin (7-3 or better) 26.0% Probability that Anand wins 3.0% Probability of a drawn match 6.4%
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100000/100000 Carlsen wins: 91068 Anand wins: 2756 Drawn matches: 6176
The second one:
I used the same probability values (30.7%, 60.7% and 8.6%) than Wilson. I got the following results after 100,000 simulations:Matthew S. Wilson wrote:But before we conclude that Anand is doomed, there are a few caveats. Drawn matches are resolved by four rapid tiebreak games, and Anand is well known to be an excellent rapid player. More importantly, these simulations put complete confidence in the Elo rating system, though other statisticians have devised more accurate ways to calculate ratings. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the upcoming match. Thirdly, it seems difficult to accept that Anand has just a 5% chance of winning in each game, even though this is the only possible result if we assume that the draw rate is 66% and that the players perform as predicted by the rating system. With these assumptions, Anand has less than a 50% chance of winning a single game in the match!
Also, one observer pointed out that the draw rate of 66% probably isn’t valid for matches in which the rating gap is large. Since Anand and Carlsen were not always so far apart, their draw rate in their previous games might not be a good indicator of how often they will draw in the world championship. To get a better estimate of the draw rate and Anand’s winning chances, I searched my database looking for games that met these requirements:
•Both players 2700+
•Rating gap of 75 – 100 Elo
•Not a rapid or blitz game
In these games, the higher rated player wins 30.7% of the time, draws 60.7%, and loses 8.6%. Based on these results, Carlsen’s expected score would be 0.61 points per game, which is very similar to what his rating would forecast. However, the draw rate has declined and Anand’s winning chances have increased. Using these assumptions, I ran 40,000 simulations:
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Probability that Carlsen wins 85.7% Probability that Carlsen wins by a statistically significant margin (7-3 or better) 24.8% Probability that Anand wins 6.1% Probability of a drawn match 8.3%
Anand’s chances have certainly improved, but he is still very much the underdog unless there is something badly wrong with the rating system. However, both players’ ratings have been very stable lately. Anand has been between 2770 and 2790 for more than a year, and Carlsen has seen even less volatility since January 2013 (min. rating: 2861, max rating 2872). So assuming that the ratings are accurate is not unreasonable.
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100000/100000 Carlsen wins: 85542 Anand wins: 5979 Drawn matches: 8479
The third one:
My parameters for this assumption are the same as in the first case, except that now Elo difference = 87 - 33 = 54 Elo. I got the following results after 100,000 simulations:Matthew S. Wilson wrote:However, in their previous games Anand has a tendency to slightly outperform his rating when he is playing Carlsen. After comparing his average rating to his performance rating, it appears that Anand gains 33 points in strength when Carlsen is on the other side of the chessboard. This pattern is present in both their early games (pre-2010) and recent games (2010-2013). But it is not statistically significant, so it could be just luck. Nevertheless, there remains a possibility that the pattern is real, so how would it affect the forecast? I subtracted 33 points from the rating gap to form an adjusted rating gap. Now that the gap is not so large, it makes sense to return to the 66% draw rate. I plugged these assumptions into the silicon oracle:
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Probability that Carlsen wins 77.2% Probability that Carlsen wins by a statistically significant margin (7-3 or better) 14.6% Probability that Anand wins 10.3% Probability of a drawn match 12.5%
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100000/100000 Carlsen wins: 75679 Anand wins: 11225 Drawn matches: 13096
The last one:
Getting back to 87 Elo difference and new stopping rules (12-12 result or a player with more than 12 points), this is what I got after 100,000 simulations:Matthew S. Wilson wrote:The brevity of the match mitigates Anand’s disadvantage: in a 24 game match with a 66% draw rate, he loses in 98% of the match simulations and wins only 0.7% of the matches. But in a twelve game match, maybe he’ll just get lucky.
I think that my results are not very different from Wilson's ones, but one thing is sure: I do not dare to give a forecast.Code: Select all
100000/100000 Carlsen wins: 98278 Anand wins: 584 Drawn matches: 1138
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
I think that the simulation with 54 Elo points gap (adjusted by the particular gameplay between these two players) and 66% draw rate is the best. That gives
Carlsen wins: 75.7%
Anand wins: 11.2%
Drawn match: 13.1%
It seems to approach to what the betters think.
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Laskos
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- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
Also, If Anand snatches _one_ extra victory, say from his opening preparation, and the number of games is 11 (+ 1 for Anand as a plus), then the percentages change pretty dramatically.Laskos wrote:
Interesting, Jesus. The folks who are betting in UK give 2 to Anand and 4/11 to Carlsen, in percentages, 69% to Carlsen and 31% to Anand.
I think that the simulation with 54 Elo points gap (adjusted by the particular gameplay between these two players) and 66% draw rate is the best. That gives
Carlsen wins: 75.7%
Anand wins: 11.2%
Drawn match: 13.1%
It seems to approach to what the betters think.
Draws 66%, Wins 24.7%, Losses 9.3%, Elo gap 54 points, for the remaining 11 games.
12 games result:
Carlsen wins: 54.1%
Anand wins: 25.7%
Drawn match: 20.2%
So, the preparation, especially opening preparation, is pretty vital here.
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Ajedrecista
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- Location: Madrid, Spain.
Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013.
Hello Kai:
Surely lots of people do not know how to translate bets into probabilities. Here is a little help:
I hope to be right.
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
Interesting to know it! Just for comparison, Wilson's results and my results for this scenario are:Laskos wrote:Interesting, Jesus. The folks who are betting in UK give 2 to Anand and 4/11 to Carlsen, in percentages, 69% to Carlsen and 31% to Anand.
I think that the simulation with 54 Elo points gap (adjusted by the particular gameplay between these two players) and 66% draw rate is the best. That gives
Carlsen wins: 75.7%
Anand wins: 11.2%
Drawn match: 13.1%
It seems to approach to what the betters think.
Code: Select all
Carlsen wins Anand wins Drawn match
Wilson (40,000 simulations) 77.2% 10.3% 12.5%
Me (100,000 simulations) 75.7% 11.2% 13.1%Code: Select all
UK system of bets: X means that you earn X with each monetary unit bet. That is: for example you bet 1 british pound and there are two possibilities:
- You win: the betting house pays to you X + 1 british pounds (you get a benefit of X british pounds).
- You lose: you have lost 1 british pound.
Of course you are not forced to bet 1 monetary unit: if you bet n british pounds, then:
- You win: the betting house pays to you n*(X + 1) british pounds (you get a benefit of n*X british pounds).
- You lose: you have lost n british pounds.
I do the math with the European system: instead of 2 and 4/11, I use 2 + 1 = 3 and 4/11 + 1 = 15/11 respectively. Then:
1/3 + 1/(15/11) = 16/15; 16/15 - 1 = 1/15 ~ 6.67% of expected benefit for the betting house.
Prob.(Carlsen wins the WCC 2013) = 1/[(16/15)*(15/11)] = 11/16 = 68.75%.
Prob.(Anand wins the WCC 2013) = 1/[(16/15)*3] = 5/16 = 31.25%.
Of course: 11/16 + 5/16 = 1 (100%).Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
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Laskos
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
Your numbers are better than Wilson's, I added mine:Ajedrecista wrote:Hello Kai:
Interesting to know it! Just for comparison, Wilson's results and my results for this scenario are:Laskos wrote:Interesting, Jesus. The folks who are betting in UK give 2 to Anand and 4/11 to Carlsen, in percentages, 69% to Carlsen and 31% to Anand.
I think that the simulation with 54 Elo points gap (adjusted by the particular gameplay between these two players) and 66% draw rate is the best. That gives
Carlsen wins: 75.7%
Anand wins: 11.2%
Drawn match: 13.1%
It seems to approach to what the betters think.
Code: Select all
Carlsen wins Anand wins Drawn match
Wilson (40,000 simulations) 77.2% 10.3% 12.5%
Jesus (100,000 simulations) 75.7% 11.2% 13.1%
Kai (10,000,000 simulations) 75.76% 11.13% 13.11%Good translation of UK bets into probabilities.Surely lots of people do not know how to translate bets into probabilities. Here is a little help:
I hope to be right.Code: Select all
UK system of bets: X means that you earn X with each monetary unit bet. That is: for example you bet 1 british pound and there are two possibilities: - You win: the betting house pays to you X + 1 british pounds (you get a benefit of X british pounds). - You lose: you have lost 1 british pound. Of course you are not forced to bet 1 monetary unit: if you bet n british pounds, then: - You win: the betting house pays to you n*(X + 1) british pounds (you get a benefit of n*X british pounds). - You lose: you have lost n british pounds. I do the math with the European system: instead of 2 and 4/11, I use 2 + 1 = 3 and 4/11 + 1 = 15/11 respectively. Then: 1/3 + 1/(15/11) = 16/15; 16/15 - 1 = 1/15 ~ 6.67% of expected benefit for the betting house. Prob.(Carlsen wins the WCC 2013) = 1/[(16/15)*(15/11)] = 11/16 = 68.75%. Prob.(Anand wins the WCC 2013) = 1/[(16/15)*3] = 5/16 = 31.25%. Of course: 11/16 + 5/16 = 1 (100%).
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
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Graham Banks
- Posts: 45279
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Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
Far from it. He lives under a bridge.shrapnel wrote:You an Astrologer or what ?...........Anthony.R.Brown wrote:Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013..........
Anthony.R.Brown
gbanksnz at gmail.com
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Ajedrecista
- Posts: 2183
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- Location: Madrid, Spain.
Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013.
Hello Kai:
My numbers are very similar to yours. After 10,000,000 simulations:
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
1e+7 simulations! Well done. I tried to manage a faster simulator by omit printing intermediate results... indeed I made it a lot faster! Some examples of the case of D = 66% and Elo difference = 54 (please note that my simulator is deterministic, so I get the same results for 100,000 simulations than previously):Laskos wrote:Your numbers are better than Wilson's, I added mine:
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Carlsen wins Anand wins Drawn match Wilson (40,000 simulations) 77.2% 10.3% 12.5% Jesus (100,000 simulations) 75.7% 11.2% 13.1% Kai (10,000,000 simulations) 75.76% 11.13% 13.11%
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1000/ 1000 (one thousand).
Carlsen wins: 750 Anand wins: 113 Drawn matches: 137
Approximated elapsed time: 0.3 seconds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
10000/ 10000 (ten thousand).
Carlsen wins: 7567 Anand wins: 1110 Drawn matches: 1323
Approximated elapsed time: 0.6 seconds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
100000/ 100000 (one hundred thousand).
Carlsen wins: 75679 Anand wins: 11225 Drawn matches: 13096
Approximated elapsed time: 3.6 seconds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1000000/ 1000000 (one million).
Carlsen wins: 758826 Anand wins: 110846 Drawn matches: 130328
Approximated elapsed time: 34.5 seconds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
10000000/10000000 (ten million).
Carlsen wins: 7579279 Anand wins: 1110827 Drawn matches: 1309894
Approximated elapsed time: 685.5 seconds.Code: Select all
Carlsen wins Anand wins Drawn match
Kai (10,000,000 simulations) 75.76% 11.13% 13.11%
Jesús (10,000,000 simulations) 75.79% 11.11% 13.10%Ajedrecista.
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Ajedrecista
- Posts: 2183
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- Location: Madrid, Spain.
Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013.
Hello again:
I improved A LOT the speed of my simulator. For some unknown reason, I do not get anymore the results that I got previously but I get very similar results. Here is the code, just to probe I am not making up the results:
It is not a perfect simulator but at least it is fast from my POV. Here are some results (I have changed slightly the output):
Summarizing:
I will not do more simulations: one billion is enough.
Getting back to the world of bets, and assuming my probabilities, bets could be more less:
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
I improved A LOT the speed of my simulator. For some unknown reason, I do not get anymore the results that I got previously but I get very similar results. Here is the code, just to probe I am not making up the results:
Code: Select all
program WCC_2013_simulator
implicit none
integer(1),parameter::games_per_simulation=12
integer(4),parameter::simulations=1000000000 ! 1e+9 simulations.
integer(1)::n,half_points_Carlsen,half_points_Anand,finished
integer::i,Carlsen_wins,Anand_wins,drawn_matches
real(2)::D,L,random_number,Elo_difference,t0,t1
t0=cpu_clock@()
Elo_difference=5.4d1
D=6.6d-1
L=1d0/(1d0+1d1**(2.5d-3*Elo_difference))-5d-1*D ! From Carlsen's POV.
Carlsen_wins=0;Anand_wins=0;drawn_matches=0
do i=1,simulations
half_points_Carlsen=0;half_points_Anand=0
finished=0
do n=1,games_per_simulation
random_number=random@()
if (random_number<L) then
half_points_Anand=half_points_Anand+2
else if (random_number<L+D) then
half_points_Carlsen=half_points_Carlsen+1
half_points_Anand=half_points_Anand+1
else
half_points_Carlsen=half_points_Carlsen+2
end if
if (finished<1) then
if (half_points_Carlsen>12) then
Carlsen_wins=Carlsen_wins+1
finished=1
continue
else if ((half_points_Carlsen>11) .and. (half_points_Anand>11)) then
drawn_matches=drawn_matches+1
finished=1
continue
else if (half_points_Anand>12) then
Anand_wins=Anand_wins+1
finished=1
continue
end if
end if
end do
end do
write(*,'(I19,A)') simulations,' simulations:'
write(*,*)
write(*,'(A,I19)') 'Carlsen wins: ',Carlsen_wins
write(*,'(A,I19)') 'Anand wins: ',Anand_wins
write(*,'(A,I19)') 'Drawn matches: ',drawn_matches
write(*,*)
t1=cpu_clock@()
write(*,'(A,F7.2,A)') 'Approximated elapsed time: ',(t1-t0)/2.999d9,' seconds.'!2.999 GHz in my PC.
end program WCC_2013_simulatorCode: Select all
1e+5 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 75570 (75.57%)
Anand wins: 11234 (11.23%)
Drawn matches: 13196 (13.20%)
Approximated elapsed time: 0.13 seconds.
-------------------------------------------
1e+6 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 758437 (75.84%)
Anand wins: 110594 (11.06%)
Drawn matches: 130969 (13.10%)
Approximated elapsed time: 1.36 seconds.
-------------------------------------------
1e+7 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 7578786 (75.79%)
Anand wins: 1109760 (11.10%)
Drawn matches: 1311454 (13.11%)
Approximated elapsed time: 13.38 seconds.
-------------------------------------------
1e+8 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 75803427 (75.80%)
Anand wins: 11092305 (11.09%)
Drawn matches: 13104268 (13.10%)
Approximated elapsed time: 133.98 seconds.
-------------------------------------------
1e+9 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 758061630 (75.81%)
Anand wins: 110894166 (11.09%)
Drawn matches: 131044204 (13.10%)
Approximated elapsed time: 1239.24 seconds.Code: Select all
Carlsen wins Anand wins Drawn match
Wilson (4e+4 simulations) 77.2% 10.3% 12.5%
Kai (1e+7 simulations) 75.76% 11.13% 13.11%
Jesús (1e+9 simulations) 75.81% 11.09% 13.10%Getting back to the world of bets, and assuming my probabilities, bets could be more less:
Code: Select all
European system UK system
Carlsen wins: 1.25 0.25
Anand wins: 8.54 7.54
Drawn match: 7.23 6.23
Expected benefit for the betting house: 5.54%.
(Of course 'drawn match' referes to the 12 classical games only).Ajedrecista.
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Ajedrecista
- Posts: 2183
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
- Location: Madrid, Spain.
Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2013.
Hello:
Carlsen raised his rating 8 Elo in the recently finished Sinquefield Cup. Doing a billion of simulations with Elo difference = 54 + 8 = 62 Elo = 2870 - 2775 - 33, and draw ratio = 66%:
Formerly we had (Elo difference = 2862 - 2775 - 33 = 54 Elo, and draw ratio = 66%):
Maybe a draw ratio of 66% is too high. Who knows?
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
Carlsen raised his rating 8 Elo in the recently finished Sinquefield Cup. Doing a billion of simulations with Elo difference = 54 + 8 = 62 Elo = 2870 - 2775 - 33, and draw ratio = 66%:
Code: Select all
1e+9 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 802360043 (80.24%)
Anand wins: 83813921 (8.38%)
Drawn matches: 113826036 (11.38%)
Approximated elapsed time: 1282.14 seconds.Code: Select all
1e+9 simulations:
Carlsen wins: 758061630 (75.81%)
Anand wins: 110894166 (11.09%)
Drawn matches: 131044204 (13.10%)
Approximated elapsed time: 1239.24 seconds.Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
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Laskos
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Carlsen Will DESTROY! Anand - World Chess Championship 2
All our results contradict a bit the betting ods of major betting houses. They give 69% to Carlsen and 31% to Anand, with the odds to go into tiebreak at 30%.Ajedrecista wrote:Hello:
Carlsen raised his rating 8 Elo in the recently finished Sinquefield Cup. Doing a billion of simulations with Elo difference = 54 + 8 = 62 Elo = 2870 - 2775 - 33, and draw ratio = 66%:
Formerly we had (Elo difference = 2862 - 2775 - 33 = 54 Elo, and draw ratio = 66%):Code: Select all
1e+9 simulations: Carlsen wins: 802360043 (80.24%) Anand wins: 83813921 (8.38%) Drawn matches: 113826036 (11.38%) Approximated elapsed time: 1282.14 seconds.
Maybe a draw ratio of 66% is too high. Who knows?Code: Select all
1e+9 simulations: Carlsen wins: 758061630 (75.81%) Anand wins: 110894166 (11.09%) Drawn matches: 131044204 (13.10%) Approximated elapsed time: 1239.24 seconds.
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.


