Redundancy of two Queens

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:05 pm

[d]5k2/5N1p/5qpP/3Bp3/4P3/q5P1/4QPK1/8 b - - 0 44

Material imbalance: BNP vs Q

Can white draw or is it forced win with optimal play assuming 14-men tablebases were used.

With many pieces remaning on the board, two queens certainly suffers from Larry Kaufman's principle of major piece redundancy.

Two Queens are very redundant. Neither Queen does anything that the other one can't do.

Eelco de Groot · Post by **Eelco de Groot** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:53 am

My guess is that if you play this out, Black with two queens will win most of the time. Black can probably exchange a queen and after that, queen is just stronger than Knight and Bishop?

Rainbow Serpent did not see an outright win from this position, but the eval is low enough that you would guess it is enough for Black.

5k2/5N1p/5qpP/3Bp3/4P3/q5P1/4QPK1/8 b - -

Engine: Rainbow Serpent 20162803_001 MP (i7 6700, 4 threads, (Windows 10 64 bit), 512 MB)
Stockfish master of March 28, with the default changes as in last RS source on Toga Developers Bulletin Board,
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G. Linscott

21/40 0:02 -2.57 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Qa3
5.Bd5 Ke7 6.f3 Qc3 7.Qf2 Ke8 8.Qf1 Qc2+
9.Kg1 Qb2 10.Qg2 Qfb6+ 11.Kh2 Q6f2
12.Qxf2 Qxf2+ 13.Kh3 Qxf3 14.Nxe5 Qh5+ (17.690.029) 7820
.
.
.
31/59 0:30 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qb2 (239.722.866) 7785

32/59 0:32 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qb2 (254.826.019) 7770

33/59 0:34 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qb2 (268.113.455) 7765

34/59 0:49 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (383.945.333) 7740

35/59 0:54 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (425.049.382) 7746

36/59 1:16 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (594.892.338) 7742

37/59 1:34 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (730.038.523) 7720

38/59 2:21 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (1.090.358.002) 7732

39/59 2:41 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (1.247.254.466) 7720

40/59 3:59 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (1.846.620.435) 7721

41/60 4:54 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (2.271.191.139) 7718

42/60 7:45 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (3.629.782.060) 7793

43/62 9:37 -2.76 1...g5 2.Kg1 Qc1+ 3.Kg2 Qc3 4.Ba2 Ke7
5.Bd5 Qa3 6.Qg4 Qb2 7.Qf3 Qxf3+
8.Kxf3 Kf6 9.Kg2 Qb6 10.Kf3 Qc5
11.Kg2 Qa3 12.Nd8 Qc1 13.Nf7 g4
14.Bb3 Qd2 (4.517.021.235) 7821

best move: g6-g5 time: 9:41.375 min n/s: 7.821.085 nodes: 4.546.925.378

No change in the eval, but a sample shootout was won. It was very fast timecontrol though. This is from White's point of view, usually I give eval from the side to move but this was default in Shredder 11 GUI when I installed it.

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.03.31"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sf20162803_001 MOD MP"]
[Black "Sf20162803_001 MOD MP"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5k2/5N1p/5qpP/3Bp3/4P3/q5P1/4QPK1/8 b - -"]

1... g5 {-2.76/36 1s} 2. Qg4 {-2.76/34 2s} Qc5 {-2.76/36
1s} 3. Qf3 {-2.76/38 4s} Ke7 {-2.76/36 1s} 4. Qxf6+
{-2.76/39 9s} Kxf6 {-2.76/40 3s} 5. Nd8 {-2.76/34 5s} Kg6
{-2.76/34 3s} 6. Nf7 {-2.76/37 17s} Qc3 {-2.73/34 1s}
7. Be6 {-2.73/35 2s} Qb2 {-2.73/35 3s} 8. Bd5 {-2.72/33 3s}
Qa1 {-2.73/34 1s} 9. Be6 {-2.73/36 4s} Qd4 {-2.73/36 1s}
10. Bd5 {-2.72/35 3s} Qb2 {-2.72/33 2s} 11. Be6 {-2.72/35
10s} Qc3 {-2.72/33 1s} 12. Bd5 {-2.70/34 4s} g4 {-2.73/34
2s} 13. Kf1 {-2.73/37 3s} Qb2 {-2.73/37 1s} 14. Kg2
{-2.73/38 3s} Qa1 {-2.73/34 1s} 15. Bc4 {-2.73/37 6s} Kf6
{-2.73/38 4s} 16. Bd5 {-2.73/39 3s} Qc1 {-2.73/39 4s}
17. Bb3 {-2.73/38 6s} Qc5 {-2.86/37 21s} 18. Bd5 {-3.37/32
5s} Qb4 {-3.48/32 5s} 19. Nd8 {-3.58/33 15s} Qf8 {-3.64/30
2s} 20. Nf7 {-3.71/31 5s} Qb8 {-3.71/32 2s} 21. Ba2
{-3.74/32 4s} Ke7 {-3.74/35 2s} 22. Bd5 {-3.74/35 3s} Qb2
{-3.74/36 4s} 23. Ng5 {-3.77/35 16s} Qb6 {-3.81/32 4s}
24. Ne6 {-3.91/32 24s} Kd7 {-4.15/30 2s} 25. Nf8+ {-4.18/32
8s} Kc7 {-4.27/28 2s} 26. Ne6+ {-4.27/31 6s} Kc8 {-4.36/28
3s} 27. Ba2 {-4.43/31 16s} Qc6 {-4.45/33 2s} 28. Bd5
{-4.46/32 5s} Qc1 {-4.48/32 2s} 29. Ng7 {-4.48/32 9s} Qxh6
{-4.51/31 3s} 30. Nf5 {-4.55/34 17s} Qg5 {-4.60/29 9s}
31. Ne3 {-4.63/31 5s} Kc7 {-4.63/32 2s} 32. Nc4 {-4.67/31
5s} Qf6 {-4.67/33 2s} 33. Ne3 {-4.67/32 6s} h5 {-4.72/27
3s} 34. Nc4 {-4.79/29 7s} Kb8 {-4.96/29 9s} 35. Na5
{-5.10/28 5s} Ka7 {-5.10/31 2s} 36. Nc4 {-5.10/33 9s} Ka6
{-5.31/34 29s} *[/pgn]

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:16 pm

[d]5k2/5N1p/5qpP/3Bp3/2P5/q5P1/4QPK1/8 b - - 0 44

This position is in balance according Stockfish Dev.

First position posted: the problem is that the centralized bishop is blunted by his own pawns. The bishop is not contributing enough in defence to make the position equal.

How much less is Two Queens of the same color worth as hinted by Korchnoi?

In this case 2 pawns less.

[pgn][Event "Stockholm Interzonal"]
[Site "Stockholm SWE"]
[Date "1962.01.27"]
[EventDate "1962.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Viktor Korchnoi"]
[Black "Eugenio Maciel German"]
[ECO "A21"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "82"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 f5 4. Bg2 Nf6 5. b4 c6 6. b5 c5
7. Bb2 Nbd7 8. d3 g6 9. a4 a5 10. bxa6 Rxa6 11. Nf3 Bg7
12. Nd2 O-O 13. Nb5 Rf7 14. Bc3 Nf8 15. e3 Ne6 16. O-O g5
17. Qe2 Re7 18. Rfe1 g4 19. f4 gxf3 20. Nxf3 Nf8 21. Nd2 Ng6
22. Nb3 Bh6 23. a5 Ng4 24. Bd5+ Kh8 25. Qd2 Rg7 26. Kh1 Qg5
27. Qg2 Qe7 28. Bd2 Nf6 29. Nc3 f4 30. exf4 Nxf4 31. Bxf4 Bxf4
32. Nd2 Bh3 33. Qxh3 Bxd2 34. Rf1 Ra8 35. a6 Bxc3 36. axb7
Rag8 37. Ra8 Nxd5 38. b8=Q Nc7 39. Qb3 Rxa8 40. Qxc3 Ne6
41. Qb2 Rf8 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

"During the analysis, I discovered something very remarkable: the board is simply too small for two Queens of the same color. They only get in each other's way. I realize that this might sound stupid, but I fully mean it. The advantage is much less than one would expect by counting material."

yurikvelo · Post by **yurikvelo** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:16 am

Nordlandia wrote:How much less is Two Queens of the same color worth as hinted by Korchnoi?

Misplaced Rook

+250.0 37.Rab1 Nxd5 38.b8=Q Ne3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Qh6 e4 41.Rxe3 Bxe3 ***
+0.16 37.Ra8 Nxd5 38.b8=Q Nc7 39.Qb3 Rxa8 40.Qxc3 Ne6 41.Qb2 Rf8 <---- Korchnoi

*** Estimated +M43, mate on 79
37.Rab1 Nxd5 38.b8=Q Ne3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Qh6 e4 41.Rxe3 Bxe3
42.Qxe3 Rxb8 43.Rxb8+ Rg8 44.Rxg8+ Kxg8 45.Qxe4 Qf6 46.Kg2 h6
47.h4 Kg7 48.h5 Qf7 49.Qg4+ Kh8 50.Qf3 Qe7 51.Kf2 Qg7
52.Qf4 Kg8 53.Qxd6 Qb2+ 54.Kf3 Qd2 55.Qe6+ Kf8 56.Qe3 Qd1+
57.Kg2 Kg7 58.Qe7+ Kg8 59.Qe6+ Kg7 60.Qg6+ Kf8 61.Qxh6+ Ke7
62.Qe3+ Kd7 63.h6 Qh5 64. Qf4 Qg6 65.g4 Qc6+ 66.Kg3 Qh1
67.Qf5+ Kc7 68.Qxc5+ Kb8 69.Qd5+ Qxd5 70.cxd5 Kb6 71.h7 Kb7
72.h8Q Kc7 73.Qf6 Kd7 74.g5 Kc7 75.g6 Kd7 76.g7 Kc7
77.g8Q Kb7 78.Qgf7+ Kb8 79.Qd8#

The advantage is much less than one would expect by counting material

advantage is forcing to annihilate opponent's Queen

hgm · Post by **hgm** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:30 am

Actually this 'redundancy' idea is a red herring. What depresses the value of two Queens in fact is the elephantiasis effect: Queens are hindered by lower-valued opponent pieces, effectively devaluating them. With one Queen this effect is incorporated in the classical piece values, but if you then add a Queen for each side to the already imbalanced game one side receives a devaluated Queen that also faces the minors that interdict access to part of the board for them, while the other side gets a Queen that does not face similar restrictions, and is thus worth more.

This can easily be demonstrated by giving both sides in a Q vs BN imbalance situation each an extra super-piece other than Queen (e.g. Chancellor, or something that has no moves in common at all). Then the value of Queen + other super-piece will be similarly depressed, although there is no redundancy at all.

AdminX · Post by **AdminX** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:33 am

hgm wrote:Actually this 'redundancy' idea is a red herring. What depresses the value of two Queens in fact is the elephantiasis effect: Queens are hindered by lower-valued opponent pieces, effectively devaluating them. With one Queen this effect is incorporated in the classical piece values, but if you then add a Queen for each side to the already imbalanced game one side receives a devaluated Queen that also faces the minors that interdict access to part of the board for them, while the other side gets a Queen that does not face similar restrictions, and is thus worth more.

This can easily be demonstrated by giving both sides in a Q vs BN imbalance situation each an extra super-piece other than Queen (e.g. Chancellor, or something that has no moves in common at all). Then the value of Queen + other super-piece will be similarly depressed, although there is no redundancy at all.

Well worded, I like the textbook like explanation. Makes it very easy to understand.

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Wed May 25, 2016 2:54 pm

White has only two minors for Q, but the pair of extra Qs means he has the advantage. Again, the board is too small for two Qs.

Prime example
[pgn][Event "Leningrad"]
[Site "??"]
[Date "1969.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Aron G Reshko"]
[Black "Vadim Z Faibisovich"]
[ECO "A36"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "2409"]
[PlyCount "50"]

1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 c5 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 Nc6 5.e4 d6 6.d3 Nf6 7.Nge2
O-O 8.O-O a6 9.h3 Rb8 10.f4 Ne8 11.Be3 Nd4 12.Qd2 b5 13.Rae1
b4 14.Nd1 b3 15.Bxd4 bxa2 16.Bxg7 a1=Q 17.Bc3 Qa4 18.f5 f6
19.Qh6 e5 20.fxe6 Bxe6 21.Nf4 Bf7 22.Ne3 Qad7 23.Ng4 Rb3
24.Nh5 Be6 25.Rxf6 Q8e7 1-0[/pgn]

Code: Select all

[Event "Leningrad"]
[Site "??"]
[Date "1969.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Aron G Reshko"]
[Black "Vadim Z Faibisovich"]
[ECO "A36"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "2409"]
[PlyCount "50"]

1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 c5 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 Nc6 5.e4 d6 6.d3 Nf6 7.Nge2
O-O 8.O-O a6 9.h3 Rb8 10.f4 Ne8 11.Be3 Nd4 12.Qd2 b5 13.Rae1
b4 14.Nd1 b3 15.Bxd4 bxa2 16.Bxg7 a1=Q 17.Bc3 Qa4 18.f5 f6
19.Qh6 e5 20.fxe6 Bxe6 21.Nf4 Bf7 22.Ne3 Qad7 23.Ng4 Rb3
24.Nh5 Be6 25.Rxf6 Q8e7 1-0

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Wed May 25, 2016 8:53 pm

[d]1rbqnrk1/4pp1p/p2p2p1/2p5/2P1PP2/2BP2PP/1P1QN1B1/q2NRRK1 b - - 0 17

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Thu May 26, 2016 2:22 am

remember this? two black Queens lose.

[d] 1q6/5kP1/5P1K/8/p5Q1/2Np2P1/8/4q3 w - -

Engine: Komodo 10 64-bit (8192 MB)
by Don Dailey, Larry Kaufman, Mark Lefler
Threads now set to 8
21.00 0:02 +M18 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Kc6 84.g8Q Qe3+ 85.Qf4 Qxf4+ 86.gxf4 a3 87.f5 Kc5 88.f6 Kd4 89.f7 Kxc3 90.f8Q (61.788.614) 25678
22.00 0:04 +M20 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd4+ Kc7 82.Qc5+ Kd7 83.Qd5+ Qd6+ 84.Qxd6+ Kxd6 85.f8Q+ Kc6 86.g8Q Qe3+ 87.Qf4 Qxf4+ 88.gxf4 a3 89.f5 Kc5 90.f6 (108.795.075) 26175
23.01 0:07 +M18 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Kc6 84.g8Q Qe3+ 85.Qf4 Qxf4+ 86.gxf4 a3 87.f5 Kc5 88.f6 Kd4 89.f7 Kxc3 90.f8Q (200.842.040) 26178
24.01 0:16 +M18 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Kc6 84.g8Q Qe3+ 85.Qf4 Qxf4+ 86.gxf4 a3 87.f5 Kc5 88.f6 Kd4 89.f7 Kxc3 90.f8Q (415.989.055) 25923
25.01 0:28 +M18 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Qe7 84.g8Q Qxf8+ 85.Qxf8+ Kc6 86.g4 Kd7 87.g5 a3 88.Qxa3 Ke6 89.g6 Kd7 90.g7 (744.785.623) 25891
26.01 0:47 +M17 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Qe7 84.Nxa4 Qxf8 85.gxf8Q+ Ke5 86.g4 Kd4 87.g5 Ke4 88.g6 Ke5 89.g7 Kd4 90.g8Q (1.218.063.473) 25812
27.01 1:21 +M16 77.Qg6+ Ke6 78.f7+ Kd7 79.Qxd3+ Kc7 80.Qc4+ Kd7 81.Qd5+ Qd6+ 82.Qxd6+ Kxd6 83.f8Q+ Kd7 84.Qf7+ Qe7 85.g8Q Qxf7 86.Qxf7+ Kc6 87.Qd5+ Kb6 88.Qd6+ Ka5 89.Qc5+ Ka6 90.Nd5 (2.095.431.825) 25839

[Event "WMCCC"]
[Site "Maastricht NED"]
[Date "2001.08.22"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Deep Junior (Computer)"]
[Black "Shredder (Computer)"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3
e6 7. Be2 Qc7 8. f4 b5 9. a3 Bb7 10. Bf3 Nbd7 11. Nde2 Rc8
12. O-O Be7 13. Kh1 O-O 14. b4 Nb6 15. Qd3 Rfd8 16. f5 Nc4
17. fxe6 fxe6 18. Bd4 Rd7 19. Bxf6 Bxf6 20. Bg4 Re7 21. Qh3
Rce8 22. a4 bxa4 23. Bh5 Rf8 24. Bg4 Bc8 25. Rxa4 Ree8
26. Raa1 g6 27. Qg3 Qb6 28. Bh3 Qxb4 29. Qd3 Bg7 30. Rfb1
Qc5 31. Na4 Qc7 32. c3 Rf6 33. Nd4 Ref8 34. Nf3 Rf4 35. Nd4
Re8 36. Rf1 Rxf1+ 37. Rxf1 Bd7 38. Ra1 Kh8 39. Qf1 g5
40. Qd1 Ne5 41. g3 g4 42. Bg2 a5 43. Qc2 Rb8 44. Qc1 Nc4
45. Qe1 Bh6 46. h3 Ne3 47. hxg4 e5 48. Nf5 Bxf5 49. exf5
Nc2 50. Qd1 Nxa1 51. Qxa1 e4 52. Qd1 e3 53. Bf3 Bg7 54. Kg2
Re8 55. Kh3 Qc4 56. Be2 Qc6 57. g5 Be5 58. Nb2 d5 59. Nd3
Bxc3 60. Nf4 d4 61. Kh4 a4 62. f6 Rb8 63. Bf3 Qb5 64. g6
Rd8 65. g7+ Kg8 66. Qc2 Rd6 67. Qa2+ Qb3 68. Bd5+ Rxd5
69. Nxd5 Kf7 70. Qg2 d3 71. Qf3 Qb8 72. Qh5+ Ke6 73. Nxc3
e2 74. Qg4+ Kf7 75. Kg5 h6+ 76. Kxh6 e1=Q 77. Qg6+ Ke6
78. f7+ Kd7 79. Qxd3+ Kc7 80. Qc4+ Kb6 1-0

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:38 pm

Fabricated position.

Looks holdable.

[d]5k2/7p/5qpP/3Np3/4P3/q5P1/4QPK1/7N b - - 0 44

Probably lost positions ->

[d]8/4N3/p6q/3P1Q2/1P2PN2/2K5/P6k/7q w - - 0 56

[d]5n2/1p3k2/p5pp/4Q3/3PP3/2P3NP/6P1/qq3NK1 w - - 0 37

[d]8/6pk/4Q2p/5p2/1B1q4/P4PK1/4B1PP/1q6 w - - 0 55

Redundancy of two Queens

Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens

Re: Redundancy of two Queens