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Komodo 10.4 released
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Carl Langan



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 1382
PostPost subject: Re: Komodo 10.4 released    Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
lkaufman wrote:
carldaman wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:
Do principle of "Major Piece Redudancy" affects Komodo evaluation if there is two queens for one side, and many pieces remaining elsewhere on the board?

Penalty for the Queen pair (Larry Kaufman called it "principle of redundancy" although how much of penalty implied is unknown. In theory rook pair, knights and queens suffers from this.

Viktor Korthnjoi --->

Hypothesis "Having two Qs may be clearly worse than having a Q and 2 Rs. That would definitely be a special case.

Quote:
During the analysis, I discovered something very remarkable: the board is simply too small for two Queens of the same color. They only get in each other's way. I realize that this might sound stupid, but I fully mean it. The advantage is much less than one would expect by counting material.


[d]1rbqnk2/4ppbp/p2p2p1/2p5/2P1PP2/3P2PP/1P1QN1B1/q1BNRRK1 w - - 0 1
   BR BB BQ BN BK    ::
::    ::    BP BP BB BP
BP ::    BP    :: BP ::
::    BP    ::    ::    
   :: WP :: WP WP    ::
::    :: WP ::    WP WP
   WP    WQ WN :: WB ::
BQ    WB WN WR WR WK    


Besides redundancy, a simplistic argument would be that the second Queen is only worth a Q-1 since the promoted pawn goes off the board. Add to that the fact that 2R = Q+1 and you already have a 2 point deficit when comparing a 2nd Q to 2R.


The diagram shows R + N for the queen, not two rooks.


The reply was aimed at the quoted 'hypothesis' statement, not the diagram.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:28 pm
      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jean Baptiste Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:39 pm
            Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:33 pm
                  Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jean Baptiste Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:46 pm
                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released John Hartmann Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:51 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:37 pm
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Dann Corbit Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:48 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Ron Langeveld Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:43 pm
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:45 am
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Art Ford Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:49 pm
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Ron Langeveld Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:03 am
      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Tim Shackel Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:10 pm
            Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:12 pm
                  Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:03 am
                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:57 am
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:11 am
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:00 am
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:18 pm
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:12 pm
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:56 pm
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:47 pm
                                                Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:04 pm
                                                      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Guenther Simon Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:50 pm
                                                            laskos Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:35 pm
                                                                  Re: laskos Mark Lefler Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:05 am
                                                                        Re: laskos Kai Laskos Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:06 am
                        Komodo 10.4 randomization Art Ford Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:59 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 randomization Mark Lefler Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:45 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 randomization Kai Laskos Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:08 pm
                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:21 pm
                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:55 am
                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:55 am
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:01 am
                                                Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:08 pm
                                                Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jesse Gersenson Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:43 pm
                                                      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:52 pm
                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kai Laskos Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:18 am
                                                Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:57 pm
                                                      Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:34 pm
                                                            Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:40 pm
                                                                  Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:57 pm
                                                                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:06 am
                                                                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:34 am
                                                                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:35 am
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jesse Gersenson Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Juan Molina Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:12 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released daniel jose Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:19 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Brian Smith Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Carl Bicknell Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Brian Smith Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Andrey Chilantiev Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Carl Bicknell Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kevin Plant Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Carl Bicknell Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:50 am
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Kevin Plant Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:30 am
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jesse Gersenson Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:26 am
                                                            Re: Komodo 10.4 released Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:09 am
                                                                  Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:47 am
                                                                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:14 pm
                                                                        Re: Komodo 10.4 released Carl Langan Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:37 pm
                                                                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:26 pm
                                                                              Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:28 pm
                                                                                    Re: Komodo 10.4 released Carl Langan Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Komodo 10.4 released Jon Fredrik Åsvang Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:04 am
      Re: Combination: K10.4 /Kaufmann Repertoire for B&W Frank Quisinsky Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:33 am
            Re: Combination: K10.4 /Kaufmann Repertoire for B&W Larry Kaufman Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:43 am
                  Re: Combination: K10.4 /Kaufmann Repertoire for B&W Frank Quisinsky Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:56 am
                  Re: Combination: K10.4 /Kaufmann Repertoire for B&W Carl Lumma Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:57 am
                        Re: Combination: K10.4 /Kaufmann Repertoire for B&W Larry Kaufman Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:46 pm
      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Gerald Grimsley Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:11 am
            Re: Komodo 10.4 released Larry Kaufman Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:50 pm
      Re: Komodo 10.4 released Michael B Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:25 pm
      Re: Komodo 10.4 released S.Taylor Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:16 pm
            Re: Komodo 10.4 released Mark Lefler Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:18 pm
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