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Test Position 2
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Marc MP
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Test Position 2 Reply to topic Reply with quote
[D]4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 1
   ::    :: BQ :: BK BR
BP    ::    ::    :: BP
   BP BR WQ WP BP BP WB
::    ::    BN    ::    
   ::    :: WP ::    ::
::    WP    ::    ::    
WP WP    :: WB ::    WP
WR    ::    ::    WK    


Gusev-Auerbach 1946
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Terry McCracken
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Test Position 2 Reply to topic Reply with quote
Marc MP wrote:
[D]4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 1
   ::    :: BQ :: BK BR
BP    ::    ::    :: BP
   BP BR WQ WP BP BP WB
::    ::    BN    ::    
   ::    :: WP ::    ::
::    WP    ::    ::    
WP WP    :: WB ::    WP
WR    ::    ::    WK    


Gusev-Auerbach 1946


I don't see a clear win for White Confused

Qd5 appears to be best. However, Black seems to hold?

Terry
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Alessandro Scotti
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Test Position 2 Reply to topic Reply with quote
Both Kiwi (very soon) and Hamsters (a lot later) change Qd5 for Qa3, but still without an advantage for White.
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John Merlino



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 627
Location: San Francisco, California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Test Position 2 Reply to topic Reply with quote
Indeed. CM9_R1 only sees a draw with Qd5 after two hours on a P4-2.4:

Code:

Time   Depth   Score   Positions   Moves
0:00   1/7   -0.87   76438      1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bb5 Qe7
               4.Kh1 Rd8
0:00   1/7   -0.33   115418      1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
               4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Rg4+ 6.Kf2 Qe7
0:02   1/8   -0.37   381625      1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
               4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 g5 6.Rd1 Re8
0:03   1/9   -0.25   685940      1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
               4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qb7 Qg4+
               7.Kf2 Re2+ 8.Kf1
0:06   1/10   -0.49   1352065      1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Rd1 Nf7 3.Bb5 Qa8
               4.Bc4 Rxe4 5.Bd5 Rg4+ 6.Kh1
0:09   1/10   -0.33   1895834      1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Qc6 3.Qxc6 Rxc6
               4.Bb3+ Nc4 5.Rd1 Kf7 6.Rd7+ Ke8
               7.Rxa7 Nxb2
0:16   1/11   -0.21   3571456      1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
               4.Qxd7+ Nxd7 5.Rf1 Rc8 6.Bg5 a6
               7.Bxe6+ Kxe6
0:34   1/12   -0.16   7776682      1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
               4.Qxd7+ Nxd7 5.Rd1 Ne5 6.Bf4 Rc8
               7.Bxe5 fxe5 8.Bxe6+ Kxe6
1:25   1/13   -0.30   20018027   1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
               4.Rd1 Qxd5 5.Bxd5 Rc8 6.Bf4 Ke7
               7.Bxe6 Kxe6 8.Bxe5 Kxe5
1:51   1/13   -0.12   25625650   1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
               4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qxe6+
               Rxe6 7.a4 Kf7 8.a5 Re2 9.b4 Ke6
               10.Bf4
3:43   2/14   -0.24   52978251   1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
               4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qxe6+
               Rxe6 7.a4 Kf7 8.a5 Re2 9.a6 Rxb2
               10.a7 Ra8 11.Be3
8:37   2/14   -0.07   127468385   1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
               4.Bb3 Re8 5.Bf4 Kg7 6.Bxe6 Rxe6
               7.Qd5 Qc5+ 8.Qxc5 bxc5 9.Bxe5 Rxe5
15:44   3/15   0.00   224586430   1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
               4.Bb3 Re8 5.Rf2 Ng4 6.Rf3 Ne5 7.Rf2
44:49   4/16   -0.01   661990201   1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
               4.Bb3 Re8 5.Rf2 Qc5 6.Bf4 Qxd4
               7.cxd4 Nd3 8.Rf3 Nxb2 9.Bxe6+ Kxe6
               10.Bc7
2:09:32   5/17   0.05   2032283189   1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
               4.Bb3 Re8 5.Bf4 Kg7 6.Bxe6 Rxe6
               7.Qd5 Qe8 8.Rd1 Qe7 9.Bxe5 Rxe5


jm
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Marc MP
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
This one is difficult for a computer, but easy (when you saw the solution!) for a human. After 1.Qxe5! fxe5 2. Rf1! black is completely tied down due to the mate threat on f8. White needs only to manoever its bishop on the b3-g8 diagonal (to create further mate threat when the e6 pawn will move) and create a passed pawn on the Q-side, push it and win! Here is my humble effort (!) against Rybka 1.0 Beta, 5min each:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1946.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gusev (Marc)"]
[Black "Auerbach (Rybka 1.0 Beta)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Opening ""]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 0"]

{}
1. Qxe5 fxe5 {4,24/14 8.2 } 2. Rf1 Rc7 {5,28/13 10.5 } 3. Bd1 Re7 {3,10/14 11.6 }
4. Bb3 b5 {3,13/14 14.1 } 5. Bd5 a6 {2,59/14 8.2 } 6. b3 a5 {2,66/14 10.6 } 7. c4
bxc4 {2,55/13 9.4 } 8. bxc4 a4 {2,64/13 5.8 } 9. a3 Qc8 {0,00/14 6.0 } 10. Kg2
Qd8 {-C -116/16 01:00.7 } 11. c5 Qc8 {-C -116/22 0.1 } 12. c6 Qd8 {-C -116/21 0.1
} 13. c7 Rxc7 {-C -116/69 0.0 } 14. e7+ Qxd5 {0,00/1 0.0 } 15. exd5 Rxe7 {-C
-116/27 0.0 } 16. Rf8# 1-0
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Alex Brown



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 604
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mark Moisans approach seems to work.The creation of a passed Queenside pawn seems to decide.
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Terry McCracken
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
Marc MP wrote:
This one is difficult for a computer, but easy (when you saw the solution!) for a human. After 1.Qxe5! fxe5 2. Rf1! black is completely tied down due to the mate threat on f8. White needs only to manoever its bishop on the b3-g8 diagonal (to create further mate threat when the e6 pawn will move) and create a passed pawn on the Q-side, push it and win! Here is my humble effort (!) against Rybka 1.0 Beta, 5min each:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1946.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gusev (Marc)"]
[Black "Auerbach (Rybka 1.0 Beta)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Opening ""]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 0"]

{}
1. Qxe5 fxe5 {4,24/14 8.2 } 2. Rf1 Rc7 {5,28/13 10.5 } 3. Bd1 Re7 {3,10/14 11.6 }
4. Bb3 b5 {3,13/14 14.1 } 5. Bd5 a6 {2,59/14 8.2 } 6. b3 a5 {2,66/14 10.6 } 7. c4
bxc4 {2,55/13 9.4 } 8. bxc4 a4 {2,64/13 5.8 } 9. a3 Qc8 {0,00/14 6.0 } 10. Kg2
Qd8 {-C -116/16 01:00.7 } 11. c5 Qc8 {-C -116/22 0.1 } 12. c6 Qd8 {-C -116/21 0.1
} 13. c7 Rxc7 {-C -116/69 0.0 } 14. e7+ Qxd5 {0,00/1 0.0 } 15. exd5 Rxe7 {-C
-116/27 0.0 } 16. Rf8# 1-0


Very good, I did look at this but didn't analize it too deeply Embarassed

Terry
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Karol Majewski
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
OK, this is very intresting, but what about the line 1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 and now if 3.Bd1 then b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 and black has space to repeat Qd8-e8-d8-e8.
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John Merlino



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 627
Location: San Francisco, California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:

1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7

[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/4p3/2P1P3/1P6/6KP/5R2 w - - 0 10
   ::    ::    :: BK BR
::    ::    BQ    :: BP
BP ::    :: WP :: BP WB
::    ::    BP    ::    
   :: WP :: WP ::    ::
:: WP ::    ::    ::    
   ::    ::    :: WK WP
::    ::    :: WR ::    


and now The King sees nothing better than a draw.

jm
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Ignacio Santos



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Solution Reply to topic Reply with quote
Hi John,

10.b4 wins.

Best,
Ignacio.
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