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Let's get back to Reality in our scene
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Rolf



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 6081
Location: Munster, Nuremberg, Princeton

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Why the community should apologize to Vasik Rajlich. In special the famous CCC and its members. -

Although being a lay myself I found out the secret of the Rybka envy and hate.

After the incredible rise of RYBKA under its author Rajlich also established persons insinuated that Rybka has been influenced by FRUIT. But in the following years FRUIT author Letouzy saw no reason to sue Rajlich. So that the legal aspect is no issue.

Everything else since then is a topic of envy and hate. But basically the former leaders couldnt forget that they hadnt had the idea or let's say chance to create their own advanced FRUIT. And without a legal counterstrike they were left with the endless soup story of suspicion allegations that normally Vas shouldnt have been allowed what he has done. It took them almost 5 years to publish the details of the early Rybka.

However since RYBKA was so much stronger than all "their" FRUIT clones the community could watch several suicide acts. First unknown "Russians" created Rybka clones and Fabien still did not sue Vas.

These Russian clones found an quick end because they were weaker than Rybka.

The next step cared about two things. Absolute anonymity of authorship and stronger results than Rybka by RE and a little trick with lowest TC and more important simplest HW desperately hoping for a never succeeding cooperation for MP design and then possibly the World Championship title.

It all ended because of the disturbing anonymity. Because on that financial level court cases would have become interesting for Vas to launch if any concrete sponsor would ever have appeared. For obvious reasons this never happened.

In CCC the anonymous cloners cant openly be mentioned because of the ICD hosting of the forum. Hence the hate & envy guys created an Open forum with anonymous contributions and senseless comments by famous lurkers who condemn Vas for now having met his point of no return...! What a Drama Lhama!

As academic I want to simply ask the many members in our community if we all shouldnt better face and accept reality which simply states that Vas with Rybka ist the best and that envy cant harm him but could well destroy the whole hobby for hundreds of sympathetical members. Let's stop supporting cloners like Norm S. and all the madness. Of course also cloners have talents but we shouldnt tolerate mere hate and envy campaigns.
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Marek Soszynski



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Birmingham, England

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Rolf wrote:
As academic I want to simply ask the many members in our community if we all shouldnt better face and accept reality which simply states that Vas with Rybka ist the best...


No, not unless Rybka really is the best, and that can't be accepted until Rybka 4 is independently and thoroughly tested against all opponents.
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Marek Soszynski
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Rolf



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 6081
Location: Munster, Nuremberg, Princeton

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Marek Soszynski wrote:
until Rybka 4 is independently and thoroughly tested against all opponents.


O.k., but in reality we test 'all' except anons and cloners. And what R4 is concerned, we all know that Rybka is at her best with clusters. That wasnt evil intention of Vas but a necessity because of the cloners. Actually the importance of testing is extremely reduced because of the impact of HW (=hardware). It makes no sense to present the best tested engine if the very best run on clusters. Just as it always was in the past in tournaments and BTW in the beginnings of computerchess competitions! And we all can participate this time. Renting a cluster for everyone while renting a Cray was only open to students decades ago.

The cluster renting is the real democracy for CC lovers. While the business with overclocked private entities is capitalistic darwinism! Wink

Thanks Vasik, for giving chess power back to the people!
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Marco Costalba



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2666

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Rolf wrote:

After the incredible rise of RYBKA under its author Rajlich also established persons insinuated that Rybka has been influenced by FRUIT. But in the following years FRUIT author Letouzy saw no reason to sue Rajlich. So that the legal aspect is no issue.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

This is a big load of sh...

Is like to say that if I steal in an house, because the owner doesn't want to open a case with the police there is no legal issue and I am not a thief.

This is absolutly amazing, but the most surprisinlgly thing is that I dedicated 30 seconds to you to write this answer.
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Ruxy Sylwyka



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 3347
Location: IASI (Romania) - the historical capital of MOLDOVA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: The academics !?! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Rolf wrote:

Thanks Vasik, for giving chess power back to the people!


..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing .......
==========
Axiom or law ?
==========

A new law of perpetual commerce ( just ) was born ?



Big Bang regards ,
Silvian
Laughing Laughing Laughing
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SilvianR Wink
https://youtu.be/1w9Xooaoxyk
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Rolf



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 6081
Location: Munster, Nuremberg, Princeton

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: The academics !?! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Sylwy wrote:


..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................



Our testers hopefully will understand the new jobs for them in the new organisations for millions of chess addicts around the World. A lot of operators and tech experts will be needed. Use your chances for a better living out of computerchess. Also I am pretty sure that in future more engines than just RYBKA will be offered for different tasks and user preferences. So, by all means all you programmers out there, please dont miss the new age of online chess assistance. Try to save new niches for your own incomes. Try to focus on interesting ideas for offers besides the market of pure Elo strength.

If you cant prevent a business, then dont go into business crimes but become a part of the business! (No use for cloners who wont profit because they must remain invisible. Sell your talents and become a legal member of the prospering industry of chess analyses. )

Dont hesitate but better ask yourself why you didnt already join yesterday! As one of the older here I can only advise you not to waste your time and energy by illegal activities or by doing nothing. Take your chances! You have only a single life to live.

All the best for all of you.
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Dr.Wael Deeb



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 9634
Location: Amman,Jordan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: The academics !?! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Sylwy wrote:
Rolf wrote:

Thanks Vasik, for giving chess power back to the people!


..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing .......
==========
Axiom or law ?
==========

A new law of perpetual commerce ( just ) was born ?



Big Bang regards ,
Silvian
Laughing Laughing Laughing


Thanks Silvian,Rolf looks great in this picture....I suppose it's taken 2-3 days ago Exclamation Question

Laughing
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Ruxy Sylwyka



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 3347
Location: IASI (Romania) - the historical capital of MOLDOVA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: The academics !?! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Laughing
_________________
https://youtu.be/uZ660vxcC2A
My Moldova !
SilvianR Wink
https://youtu.be/1w9Xooaoxyk
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Robert Flesher



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Rolf wrote:
Why the community should apologize to Vasik Rajlich. In special the famous CCC and its members. -

Although being a lay myself I found out the secret of the Rybka envy and hate.

After the incredible rise of RYBKA under its author Rajlich also established persons insinuated that Rybka has been influenced by FRUIT. But in the following years FRUIT author Letouzy saw no reason to sue Rajlich. So that the legal aspect is no issue.

Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.

Everything else since then is a topic of envy and hate. But basically the former leaders couldnt forget that they hadnt had the idea or let's say chance to create their own advanced FRUIT. And without a legal counterstrike they were left with the endless soup story of suspicion allegations that normally Vas shouldnt have been allowed what he has done. It took them almost 5 years to publish the details of the early Rybka.

However since RYBKA was so much stronger than all "their" FRUIT clones the community could watch several suicide acts. First unknown "Russians" created Rybka clones and Fabien still did not sue Vas.

These Russian clones found an quick end because they were weaker than Rybka.

The next step cared about two things. Absolute anonymity of authorship and stronger results than Rybka by RE and a little trick with lowest TC and more important simplest HW desperately hoping for a never succeeding cooperation for MP design and then possibly the World Championship title.

It all ended because of the disturbing anonymity. Because on that financial level court cases would have become interesting for Vas to launch if any concrete sponsor would ever have appeared. For obvious reasons this never happened.

In CCC the anonymous cloners cant openly be mentioned because of the ICD hosting of the forum. Hence the hate & envy guys created an Open forum with anonymous contributions and senseless comments by famous lurkers who condemn Vas for now having met his point of no return...! What a Drama Lhama!

As academic I want to simply ask the many members in our community if we all shouldnt better face and accept reality which simply states that Vas with Rybka ist the best and that envy cant harm him but could well destroy the whole hobby for hundreds of sympathetical members. Let's stop supporting cloners like Norm S. and all the madness. Of course also cloners have talents but we shouldnt tolerate mere hate and envy campaigns.
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Rolf



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 6081
Location: Munster, Nuremberg, Princeton

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene Reply to topic Reply with quote

Robert Flesher wrote:

Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.


If I ranted with the trivial hint on top number one question of court cases then what is it what you are doing if that is all irrelevant for sure so to speak? Look, I am a lay and I couldnt decide on the technical question. Bob answered me that he wouldnt sue anyone, Fabien doesnt sue, so, I conclude that this whole question is gone for good. I mean we are in 2010 and the beta R1 was in 2005. Did you ever answer why perhaps Fab didnt sue Vas? Have you at least one idea?

Therefore I meant let's get back to the reality without old hate campaigns. For the best of the hobby and its community. Dont lose yourself in negative thoughts.
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