Test Position 2
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
Re: Solution
OK, this is very intresting, but what about the line 1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 and now if 3.Bd1 then b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 and black has space to repeat Qd8-e8-d8-e8.
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Re: Solution
Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:
1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7
[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/4p3/2P1P3/1P6/6KP/5R2 w - - 0 10
and now The King sees nothing better than a draw.
jm
1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7
[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/4p3/2P1P3/1P6/6KP/5R2 w - - 0 10
and now The King sees nothing better than a draw.
jm
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Re: Solution
Hi John,
10.b4 wins.
Best,
Ignacio.
10.b4 wins.
Best,
Ignacio.
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Re: Solution
I looked at that, but I guess I just needed a bit more CPU time.
It turns out that after 10.b4 Qxb4 11.Rf7 a5, you need to find the following:
12.Rd7!! {this move alone may be hard for engines to find} Qb2+
...and now any move by the White King onto the third rank wins.
Great position!
jm
It turns out that after 10.b4 Qxb4 11.Rf7 a5, you need to find the following:
12.Rd7!! {this move alone may be hard for engines to find} Qb2+
...and now any move by the White King onto the third rank wins.
Great position!
jm
Re: Solution
I will play 8...a5! and after 9.c4 Qa3!JVMerlino wrote:Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:
1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7
draw!
Re: The Correct Solution?
Hi Karol,Karol Majewski wrote:I will play 8...a5! and after 9.c4 Qa3!JVMerlino wrote:Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:
1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7
draw!
I think you're right, and 8...a5! will draw! This more or less refutes the solution I had:
1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. Bxc4 bxc4 6. b4 * which is similar.
So I searched for an improvement and I think I found one!
1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. a4! a6 {seems forced} 6. Ba2!! Qe7 {lets try this} 7. b4! *
[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/1p2p3/PPr1P3/2P5/B6P/5RK1 b - b3 0 1
Now white will capture the c4-rook with a winning Q-side pawn structure! Pushing the b-pawn will give an easy win!
Here is Toga 1.3 X4 analysis from the diagram (score relative to Toga - black here):
Code: Select all
00:22:12.5 0,00 18 627003769 Qd8 Rf7 Qe8 Bxc4 bxc4 Rg7+ Kf8 Rc7+ Kg8 Rg7+
00:24:38.4 -5,58 19 706926332 Qd8 Bxc4 bxc4 b5 axb5 axb5 Qb8 e7 Qa7+ b6 Qxe7 b7 Qd8 Rf8+ Qxf8...
00:29:39.8 -2,95 19 868872523 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rd7 Re8 e7 Kg7 b5 ...
00:35:20.8 -3,05 20 1046837979 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 ...
00:42:52.4 -2,85 21 1296150453 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 axb5 axb5 Ke6 b6 Kd6 Ra7 Rb8 Kf3 h6 Ke3 g5 Kf3 h5 Ke3
Code: Select all
1:15 3/14 6.79 21533083 1...De8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.b5 axb5 4.axb5 Dd8 5.Rg2 Da8 6.Rg3 Da3...
3:19 3/14 2.37 54352033 1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5 ...
8:29 4/15 3.53 137867222 1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5...
22:22 4/15 3.10 351917628 1...Da7+ 2.Rg2 Dg7 3.Fxg7 Rxg7 4.Fxc4 bxc4 5.Tf7+ Rh6 6.e7 Te8...
29:23 4/15 2.83 455845961 1...Dg7 2.Fxg7 Rxg7 3.Fxc4 bxc4 4.Tf7+ Rh6 5.Rg2 Te8 6.e7 g5 7.Tf6+ Rg7 8.Txa6 Txe7 9.a5 Rf7 10.b5 Re8 11.Ta8+ Rd7
Re: The Correct Solution?
Could you post the entire game?Marc MP wrote:Hi Karol,Karol Majewski wrote:I will play 8...a5! and after 9.c4 Qa3!JVMerlino wrote:Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:
1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7
draw!
I think you're right, and 8...a5! will draw! This more or less refutes the solution I had:
1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. Bxc4 bxc4 6. b4 * which is similar.
So I searched for an improvement and I think I found one!
1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. a4! a6 {seems forced} 6. Ba2!! Qe7 {lets try this} 7. b4! *
[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/1p2p3/PPr1P3/2P5/B6P/5RK1 b - b3 0 1
Now white will capture the c4-rook with a winning Q-side pawn structure! Pushing the b-pawn will give an easy win!
Here is Toga 1.3 X4 analysis from the diagram (score relative to Toga - black here):
And CM9_R1 (score relative to white):Code: Select all
00:22:12.5 0,00 18 627003769 Qd8 Rf7 Qe8 Bxc4 bxc4 Rg7+ Kf8 Rc7+ Kg8 Rg7+ 00:24:38.4 -5,58 19 706926332 Qd8 Bxc4 bxc4 b5 axb5 axb5 Qb8 e7 Qa7+ b6 Qxe7 b7 Qd8 Rf8+ Qxf8... 00:29:39.8 -2,95 19 868872523 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rd7 Re8 e7 Kg7 b5 ... 00:35:20.8 -3,05 20 1046837979 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 ... 00:42:52.4 -2,85 21 1296150453 Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 axb5 axb5 Ke6 b6 Kd6 Ra7 Rb8 Kf3 h6 Ke3 g5 Kf3 h5 Ke3
I don't think black can prevent this winning set-up for white. Any comments?Code: Select all
1:15 3/14 6.79 21533083 1...De8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.b5 axb5 4.axb5 Dd8 5.Rg2 Da8 6.Rg3 Da3... 3:19 3/14 2.37 54352033 1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5 ... 8:29 4/15 3.53 137867222 1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5... 22:22 4/15 3.10 351917628 1...Da7+ 2.Rg2 Dg7 3.Fxg7 Rxg7 4.Fxc4 bxc4 5.Tf7+ Rh6 6.e7 Te8... 29:23 4/15 2.83 455845961 1...Dg7 2.Fxg7 Rxg7 3.Fxc4 bxc4 4.Tf7+ Rh6 5.Rg2 Te8 6.e7 g5 7.Tf6+ Rg7 8.Txa6 Txe7 9.a5 Rf7 10.b5 Re8 11.Ta8+ Rd7
I'd like it for my records thanks!
Terry
Re: The Correct Solution?
Could you post the entire game?
I'd like it for my records thanks!
Terry[/quote]
Unfortunately I don't have it. It is not on chessgames.com either.
I'd like it for my records thanks!
Terry[/quote]
Unfortunately I don't have it. It is not on chessgames.com either.
Re: The Correct Solution?
Terry McCracken wrote:Could you post the entire game?
I'd like it for my records thanks!
Terry
Thanks anyway.Marc MP wrote: Unfortunately I don't have it. It is not on chessgames.com either.
I'll try some other databases on the net.
I like chessgames,com as well, but quite often they don't have the game you're looking for.
Thanks Again, and thanks very much for this position, I truly enjoyed it!
Best,
Terry
P.S. If I find the game I'll post it.
Last edited by Terry McCracken on Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solution
None engine not find! Depth cca 31 needded. Depth 23 - 1.Qxe5 fe5 2.Vaf1 Qxe6! - extend search.