A legality question - EL Chinito 3.25

[Sylwy]

Hello !

A legality question: my post about EL Chinito was moved in the moderator forum because of the link to El Chinito 3.25 chess engine (a semi-clone of Crafty 19.5) - were some complaints.
The link was obtained from a very legal site (and much admired by me ): Computer - Chess Wiki (administrator Mr. Ron Murawski) - CLONE ENGINE LIST -:

http://computer-chess.org/doku.php?id=c ... ngine_list

Here are a lot of links to cloned engines (El Chinito, Kaissa 2, Patriot,LordKing & so on).

The question : is legal or not to post in CCC links to cloned chess engines in the following conditions:

1.- the link is took over from a legal site;
2.- the condition of clone is mentioned.

I'm confused because the links of a lot of clones were published here (CCC) without any problem along the time ! Ivan, Robbo, Strelka, Belka , Fire,Stockfish clones- but not only - were here !

Regards,
SilvianR

NR:

"It is difficult to quantify for me, but it seems that most of ElChinitos
strength was not based on Crafty but on Eugenio's own search and most parts of
it's evaluation." (Maestro Gerd Isenberg)

http://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?id=384799

[velmarin]

Hi, Ruxi,
Without getting too much into the subject, you mention Ron's site,
You can read it clearly.

Code: Select all

This is a fairly complete list of all Winboard/UCI chess engines that were proven to be unauthorized copies of legitimate engines.

Word unauthorized read.
I guess Ron only gives information about something that is on the network.
Certainly not put as many clones if appropriate, if Stockfish allows even encourages the development of your engine, you should call but clones,
best derivate.

At least in Spanish the word clone means "like for like" copy "100 x 100", ect.
Respect, Ivan,Robbo,fire,ect, with code in sight, at least in Spanish does not enter the word "clone" of being a sin, it would be another kind of qualification ,
to be a lack.

[Sylwy]

Hello Jose !

===========================
WOW ! What an avatar !

Je suis absolument boulversée !!!!!!!!!!!

BRAVO ! I think the original is imperial !

===========================


Well Jose, the discussion here is not about the clone condition of El Chinito but about the legality of posting my link here.

Personally, I like a lot EL Chinito !

Best to you !
SilvianR

NR:

"At least in Spanish the word clone means "like for like" copy "100 x 100", ect."

Agreed !

Well, El Chinito isn't an 100% copy (read, please, the opinion of Mr. Gerd Isenberg in my first post) !

[velmarin]

Guess Ruxi,
the problem is that the code is not public (I guess), which makes it illegal.
But I will not argue.


The Avatar,
she is Anna Matnadze, Georgian by birth and naturalized Spanish, living in barcelona.
World champion jinfantil categories, youth, ect, GM.
A dear person, with thousands of friends.
A small tribute.
https://www.facebook.com/amatnadze

[Sylwy]

Guess Ruxi,
the problem is that the code is not public (I guess), which makes it illegal.
But I will not argue.


The Avatar,
she is Anna Matnadze, Georgian by birth and naturalized Spanish, living in barcelona.
World champion jinfantil categories, youth, ect, GM.
A dear person, with thousands of friends.
A small tribute.
https://www.facebook.com/amatnadze

Thank you for the information ! Yes, the Georgian girls are superb. Even in my Iasi they are some !








Trei Ierarhi church in my IASI (a masterpiece) is in Georgian style:





Waiting for some new complaints ?


Have a nice day !
SilvianR

[Sylwy]

Hello computer chess aficionados !

El Chinito beating Junior 7 back in the Odyssey 2001, it
replaced the program Eugen after round 13 and never lost a single game on this.
tourney:

http://www.rebel.nl/odyssey.htm http://www.rebel.nl/odyssey.htm

[Event "Odyssey2001-Tournament"]
[Site "k6-400, 40/120"]
[Date "2002.01.09"]
[Round "15"]
[White "Junior 7"]
[Black "El Chinito"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B22"]
[PlyCount "101"]

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dxc5 Qxc5 7. Na3 e5 8.
Nb5 Qe7 9. b3 Bg4 10. Ba3 Qd8 11. Bd6 Rc8 12. Bc4 a6 13. Ng5 Be7 14. Bxf7+ Kf8
15. Ne6+ Bxe6 16. Bxe6 Ra8 17. Nc7 Qxd6 18. Qxd6 Bxd6 19. Nxa8 Ke7 20. Nb6 Kxe6
21. Nc4 Bc5 22. Nd2 Rd8 23. Rd1 Rd3 24. b4 Bb6 25. Nb1 Rxd1+ 26. Kxd1 Bxf2 27.
Ke2 Bb6 28. Nd2 e4 29. g3 Ne5 30. a4 e3 31. Nb1 a5 32. bxa5 Bc5 33. Rc1 Nfg4
34. h4 Nf6 35. Rg1 Ne4 36. g4 Ng6 37. Kf3 Ke5 38. h5 Nh4+ 39. Ke2 Kf4 40. g5
Ng3+ 41. Kd3 Nf3 42. Rxg3 Kxg3 43. c4 Nxg5 44. Ke2 Ne6 45. Nc3 Nf4+ 46. Kd1 Kf3
47. Kc2 e2 48. Nxe2 Kxe2 49. h6 gxh6 50. Kc3 Kd1 51. Kb3 0-1

S_U_P_E_R_B !!!


SilvianR
====================================================================
Warning: this above is a semi-clone game (from Ed site). Take a look at your own risk !
====================================================================

[Adam Hair]

Hello !

A legality question: my post about EL Chinito was moved in the moderator forum because of the link to El Chinito 3.25 chess engine (a semi-clone of Crafty 19.5) - were some complaints.
The link was obtained from a very legal site (and much admired by me ): Computer - Chess Wiki (administrator Mr. Ron Murawski) - CLONE ENGINE LIST -:

http://computer-chess.org/doku.php?id=c ... ngine_list

Here are a lot of links to cloned engines (El Chinito, Kaissa 2, Patriot,LordKing & so on).

The question : is legal or not to post in CCC links to cloned chess engines in the following conditions:

1.- the link is took over from a legal site;
2.- the condition of clone is mentioned.

I'm confused because the links of a lot of clones were published here (CCC) without any problem along the time ! Ivan, Robbo, Strelka, Belka , Fire,Stockfish clones- but not only - were here !

Regards,
SilvianR

NR:

"It is difficult to quantify for me, but it seems that most of ElChinitos
strength was not based on Crafty but on Eugenio's own search and most parts of
it's evaluation." (Maestro Gerd Isenberg)

http://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?id=384799

[MODERATION]
If you will read exactly what Gerd was responding to in your link from the CCC archive, you will see the following public message from Eugenio Castillo:

"I've used crafty source to implement my own program ElChinito.

My public and sincere apologize to Bob Hyatt not to mention that in ElChinito's
readme file and copyright notes and did not ask consequently for permission. I
will ensure that ElChinito is not longer public available for download and plays
any public tournaments.

I've inform ICGA and French Computer Chess Association about this issue to
accept their decision, and discalificate Chinito from the played events.

My apologize to Frank Q. for the damages caused.

My apologize to any one of the tester and downloaders of Arena.

Eugenio Castillo."

From that statement (which was posted in what I believe was an earlier version of the Arena News Ticker and shared by Frank Quisinsky at CCC), it seems to that the wishes of Mr. Castillo were that ElChinto was no longer publicly available. That is why the previous thread has not been returned to the general forum.

If you wish to discuss this further, please click on the pm button found at the bottom of this post.

Thanks,
Adam

[Ron Murawski]

Hello !

A legality question: my post about EL Chinito was moved in the moderator forum because of the link to El Chinito 3.25 chess engine (a semi-clone of Crafty 19.5) - were some complaints.
The link was obtained from a very legal site (and much admired by me ): Computer - Chess Wiki (administrator Mr. Ron Murawski) - CLONE ENGINE LIST -:

http://computer-chess.org/doku.php?id=c ... ngine_list

Here are a lot of links to cloned engines (El Chinito, Kaissa 2, Patriot,LordKing & so on).

Hi Silvian,

I am sorry that any clone links were posted at my wiki. They were posted by someone else and I did not check the work. But, since it is my wiki, it is my mistake and I apologize to everyone. All clone links will be deleted.

Ron