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optimal aspiration window for stockfish question
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Robert Hyatt



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 17782
Location: Birmingham, AL

PostPost subject: Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:18 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Don wrote:
mcostalba wrote:
Rebel wrote:
I am sure the SF team have done considerable testing here.


Yes, we have.

At the end of endless trials with differnt formulas and values we end up in starting with a small window value:

Code:

delta = Value(16);
alpha = RootMoves[PVIdx].prevScore - delta;
beta  = RootMoves[PVIdx].prevScore + delta;


That is increased after a fail low/high with the following formula:

Code:

if (bestValue >= beta)
{
    beta += delta;
    delta += delta / 2;
}
else if (bestValue <= alpha)
{   
    alpha -= delta;
    delta += delta / 2;
}



I want to add that this is the Ippo* formula and I think that very probably it is what is used in _all_ the top engines from Rybka 3 to Houdini. Although we knew the Ippo formula since when sources were published we moved to that only one year later, after having tried all the possible different combinations: some are weaker, some are equivalent ELO wise, but more complex, so this is the simplest formula (we know) that guarantees top performance.

Answering to Uri: I am not interested in tweaking the engine on a sample position. I only use real games to validate a change.


That's what we do. We will run a few hundred games at various fixed depth levels and have the instrumentation that gives us the average time per move up to some arbitrary move number. I think we currently use move 70. We think this is superior to just running 100 positions and timing them. We only do this when we want data on something that is supposed to be a speedup - normally we just run time games to measure general improvements and things that involve trade-offs.


Since it was a trivial change, I took the above and rewrote it to fit Crafty's search. Absolutely no change, either up or down. A couple of things I do not like about it however. 1. Several re-searches to win a pawn or more, and 2. way too many re-searches to find a forced mate.

We've used several different approaches. In Cray Blitz we did more "bumps". In Crafty I settled on fewer. But it actually doesn't seem to matter one bit based on the testing I just did, which was run at fast games and at 1min+1sec games as well. Absolutely no +/- change when switching from what I did to this, and back...
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Subject Author Date/Time
optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Uri Blass Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:14 am
      Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Ed Schroder Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:55 pm
            Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Marco Costalba Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:47 pm
                  Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Don Dailey Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:41 pm
                        Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:18 pm
                              Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Marco Costalba Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:15 am
                                    Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:06 pm
                                          Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:30 pm
                                                Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:11 pm
                                                      Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question (update Robert Hyatt Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:55 pm
                                                            Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question (update Miguel A. Ballicora Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:23 pm
                                                                  Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question (update Robert Hyatt Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:29 am
                                                                        Re: test results Robert Hyatt Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:41 am
                                                                              Re: test results Rémi Coulom Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:38 am
                                                                                    Re: test results Robert Hyatt Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:20 pm
                                                                              Re: test results Karlo Bala Jr. Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 am
                                                                                    Re: test results Robert Hyatt Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: test results Ed Schroder Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: test results Robert Hyatt Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:16 pm
                                          Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Vincent Diepeveen Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:44 pm
                                                Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:11 pm
                                                      Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Marco Costalba Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:28 pm
                                                            Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:28 am
                                                                  Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Lucas Braesch Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:55 am
                                                                        Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:02 am
                  Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Houdart Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:44 pm
                        Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Houdart Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:18 am
                              Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Uri Blass Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:12 am
                                    Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Karlo Bala Jr. Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:46 pm
                                          Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Robert Hyatt Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:49 pm
                  Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Lucas Braesch Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:10 pm
                        Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Eelco de Groot Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:30 pm
                              Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Lucas Braesch Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:03 am
                                    Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Marco Costalba Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:13 am
      Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Eelco de Groot Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:20 am
            Re: optimal aspiration window for stockfish question Uri Blass Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:57 pm
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