NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

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Arpad Rusz
Posts: 273
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Location: Budapest

Re: NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

Post by Arpad Rusz »

Robert Flesher wrote:I find it very intersting that you state Final Gen cannot solve the first position. If it is a tablebase generator, then the tablebases base should look at every possible move, and thus be correct. If that is true, then either the tablebase it not complete/incorrect, or the winning position you provided may not be forced. I am running Final gen now, this has me very curious. Thanks :wink:
That's the truth, you will see! :wink:
FinalGen's tablebases are not complete like Nalimov's etc. That is the prize paid for being able to generate tablebases with 7, 8 or even more pieces. There will be positions (the author estimates ~5%) with some kind of promotions that will not be solved. I don't fully understand it, but try this:

[D]6Q1/8/8/k7/8/8/p1K5/8 b - - 0 1

It is unsolvable only because the Knight promotion with check! (A bug or this is the natural thing with the author's algorithm? I don't know...)
Robert Flesher
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

Post by Robert Flesher »

Arpad Rusz wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:I find it very intersting that you state Final Gen cannot solve the first position. If it is a tablebase generator, then the tablebases base should look at every possible move, and thus be correct. If that is true, then either the tablebase it not complete/incorrect, or the winning position you provided may not be forced. I am running Final gen now, this has me very curious. Thanks :wink:
That's the truth, you will see! :wink:
FinalGen's tablebases are not complete like Nalimov's etc. That is the prise for being able to generate tablebases with 7, 8 or even more pieces. There will be positions (the author estimates ~5%) with some kind of promotions that will not be solved. I don't fully understand it, but try this:

[D]6Q1/8/8/k7/8/8/p1K5/8 b - - 0 1

It is unsolvable only because the Knight promotion with check! (A bug or this is the natural thing with the author's algorithm? I don't know...)

I have always had the understanding that a tablebase includes all possible moves for a given position. If this understanding is correct, then the software is not generating the tablebase for every possible position; and thus the software is broken. I hope someone with a greater understanding can explain this further.
Jouni
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Re: NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

Post by Jouni »

Hmm - I get antivirus message from no less than 5 dll files- no wonder is problems to run -> recycling bin.
Jouni
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Ajedrecista
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Location: Madrid, Spain.

NEWS: FinalGen has been reuploaded!

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello:

I read an interesting post in Rybka Forum:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=24565
pPerez wrote:WARNING! Virus Alert

Hi

I'm the main conceptor and developer of FinalGen.
This message is to inform you that the initial version of FinalGen was accidentally infected by a Troyan.

The viruses free version is available for download now, but if you downloaded the software before 22/03/2012, you should uninstall it immediately,
and remove the remaining files in the installation folder, if any.

You should also scan your whole system. You can scan is for free by using PANDA online active scan. (see link below)

http://www.pandasecurity.com/activescan/index/

There is still a false positive (that is, a virus detected but not a real virus). For example, AVAST blocks the DLL used by FinaGen.
I'm working to solve this problem.

I will keep you informed in my website.

I apologize for the inconvenience

Pedro Pérez
The author thinks that the first release was accidentally infected by a Trojan.
The viruses free version is available for download now, but if you downloaded the software before 22/03/2012, you should uninstall it immediately,
and remove the remaining files in the installation folder, if any.
I suppose that he refers to 20/03/2012. This reuploaded file was modified on 20/03/2012 (9:38), or at least this is what WinRAR shows in my PC; it has now the following CRC32 key: 4B98E4B2 (I post it for comparison purposes). FinalGenSetup.exe uncompressed current size are 4,415,648 bytes.

That is all. I would never link to a malware software if I know it. I analyzed the first release setup file with Norton 360 before starting this topic, and it did not detect anything; but I did not install the programme. I am really sorry if I unintentionally caused any problems.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Ignacio
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

Post by Ignacio »

2 days ago, I wrote
Ignacio wrote:Is the software free of malware? After installing, Panda Antivirus says virus: Trj/CI.A
and the author confirmed me by e-mail.
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F.Huber
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Austria

Re: NEWS: FinalGen chess endgame tablebase generator.

Post by F.Huber »

Hi Ignacio.
Ignacio wrote:2 days ago, I wrote
Ignacio wrote:Is the software free of malware? After installing, Panda Antivirus says virus: Trj/CI.A
and the author confirmed me by e-mail.
It's almost impossible that there has been any virus/trojan in this program.
I've downloaded the first version 2 days ago and now also the new version dated 20.3.2012. All files have exactly the same sizes (in bytes), so I made a binary compare of all files and the only differences I found were about 5-7 bytes for each file (and most of them are just the compile date/time).
I doubt that any virus or trojan could be made in just a few (5-7) bytes! :wink:

Franz
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Sylwy
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Location: IASI - the historical capital of MOLDOVA
Full name: SilvianR

Re: THANK YOU GENERALISSIMO !!!

Post by Sylwy »

fern wrote: 1.-You are an incredible nice guy, Ruxy.
2.-If you only let me know the girl in your avatar.


Yum yum regards
Fern
1.- A fantastic compliment - for me - coming from Mr. Fernando Villegas Darrouy !

THANK YOU GRANDE MAESTRO !

2.- Memorias de un amnésico :lol:

OK , just for you (only for you ) Generslissimo:

Image

Buenos dias Grande Maestro !

SilvianR :wink:
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Sylwy
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Full name: SilvianR

Re:The readme .pdf of Wilhelm 1.50 in English !

Post by Sylwy »

Hi all !

http://web.archive.org/web/200610060013 ... 8En%29.pdf

Have a nice weekend !

SilvianR :wink:
pPerez
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Hi

Post by pPerez »

Hi

I'm new to this site. I have developped this software because I wanted to learn chess. As Capablanca said, endgames should be studied before middlegames and openings. And I fully agree.

My approach was : OK I have not a lot of time to do that, so I will let a software analyze the endgames for me, and I will memorize the positions and 2 o 3 key variations. In practice, this will be enough.

I didn’t find that software. Engines are not reliable and Nalimov databases cannot solve endgames with more than 6 pieces. So I decided to develop this tool.

FinaGen has 2 restrictions :
- You can only analyze endgames with up to one piece per side. For example, a position like KBB vs KNB cannot be solved. Any number of pawns is allowed, unless the position is too complex.

- Not all positions can be solved. Sometimes a position is partially solved, showing a result like “Black does not lose”, which means that Black can at least force a draw.
One of the tests consisted of comparing results from Nalimov database to FinalGen ones. All positions with one piece or less per side were compared. The result was the following one

Total positions compared = 1.59955E+13
Not solved = 3.72744E+11
Partially solved = 2904408188
Solved solution rate = 97.6515356%

This takes in account also illegal positions, which represent about 30% of the total, so we can conclude that unsolvable positions are less than 5%.

The “search for draw” mode can be very very fast but leads to a greater number of unsolved positions. In addition, it cannot determine a win, only draws.


In the next message, I will try to explain the reasons for such restrictions.
Despite these limitations, the program remains interesting because of its performance, compared to other generators.

Regarding the virus alert, this has been fixed and the current version is safe. As you can see in my Website, false positives are still there for some antivirus but this will be fixed soon.

Jouni , the “unexpected error” you got has been caused because the antivirus removed some dll’s and the program could not work properly.

Regards
Pedro Pérez Romero
pPerez
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: NEWS: FinalGen has been reuploaded!

Post by pPerez »

Hi again,

How does FinalGen work? Let’s show an example:

[D]3k4/8/PpK5/1Pp3p1/2P3P1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

What is the best way to win for White?
A human player or even a chess program would play 1. a7 and force a checkmate easily with both the queen and the king.

An endgame generator does not proceed in this way. These programs do not have any intelligence, and must build all the positions resulting from the initial position (by retrograde analysis), including promotions. Black can also promote, and minor promotions can occur.
For example, to solve the above position, the endgames generators must solve the following positions first:
[D]Q7/4k3/2K5/8/8/1q6/8/2q3q1 w - - 0 1
[D]Q7/5k2/2K3N1/8/3r4/1q6/8/8 w - - 0 1

That is, it must generate a complete 6-men pawnless database to solve a simple pawn endgame which can be easily won. In fact, it must generate more positions than the whole complete Nalimov 6-men tablebase currently available.
Don’t you believe me? I can guarantee that it is true. :D

FinalGen can generate the tablebase in a few hours. It promotes a pawn only once, and sets a win result if white can force a win with only one promotion, this is faster than generating the complete Nalimov tablebase set.

FinaGen uses other heuristics to determine draws but all of them are based on the same idea. We reduce the number of positions after a promotion to make the process faster, because only a few positions are needed from the astronomical total.

Why may some positions not be solved?

Because they are “out of heuristics”, FinalGen can not determine the result from these few positions (“ a few” here means millions, billions or trillions, depending on the position). These unsolvable positions are discarded and flagged as “not available”.

That occurs in the example below:
[D]8/6K1/8/5PPP/p7/1k6/8/8 w - - 0 1

White and Black promote simultaneously, and after that, White can win by promoting a second pawn.
Here White needs 2 promotions, not one, to win, so the algorithm does not find the win.

However, those positions can be solved if the winning side can force checkmate or a queen exchange just after the promotion. For instance, the following endgame can be solved.
[D]8/8/8/1p2KP2/5P2/2k5/8/8 b - - 0 15

1... b4 2. f6 b3 3. f7 b2 4. f8=Q b1=Q 5. Qc5+ Kd2 6. Qf2+ Kc3 7. Qd4+ exchanges queens and wins.

So not all the possibilities are explored. This is why the way to win may not be the shortest one (for example, Nalimov can show mate in 10 where FinalGen has found a checkmate in 12).

And finally, why the “one piece per side” limitation? This is due to memory RAM requirements. Each additional piece would multiply the required RAM memory by 64, so I had decided to work only with 2 pieces + pawns. The source code has been specifically designed for 2 or less pieces and cannot be adapted. For more pieces, the whole program should be re-designed.

I hope these explanations have been useful to you.

Best Regards.

Pedro Pérez Romero