Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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fern
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Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by fern »

Maybe is better to continue the exchanges in order to let the black queen compromised in a dangerous column.
Dunno.
Is what I would do after my half a minute analysis. I tend to play too fast and somewhat shallow for the same reason.
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Mike S.
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Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by Mike S. »

Mike S. wrote:Black's chance to draw was 19...Qh4!
I guess this was a kind of psychological problem, because with two extra pieces in a blitz game, Black certainly wanted to win and most probably did not consider to return material.

[D]rn1q1r1k/2pb4/pn2p1Q1/1p1pPp2/3P4/1PNBbR2/P1P3PP/R6K b - - 0 19

Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32-2def (at depth 22):

1. = (0.00): 19...Qh4 20.Rh3 Qxh3 21.gxh3 Nc6 22.Rg1 Bxg1 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Qh6+
2. +- (22.21): 19...Bf2 20.Rh3+ Qh4 21.Rxh4+ Bxh4 22.Rf1 Be8 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Rf4 Bh5 25.Qxh5 Rf7 26.Rxh4 Kf8 27.Qg5 Ke8 28.Rh8+ Kd7 29.Qg8 Rf8 30.Qxf8 Kc6 31.Qf7 Kb7 32.Qxe6 Nc6 33.Rxa8 Nxa8 34.Nxd5 Nd8 35.Qxf5 Nc6 36.Qf2 Nd8 37.h4 c6 38.Nf6 Nc7 39.h5 Nf7 40.Ne4 Nh6 41.Nd6+ Kb6 42.d5+ c5
3. +- (#11): 19...Bg5 20.Rh3+ Bh4 21.g3 Rf7 22.Qxf7 Nc6 23.Rxh4+ Qxh4 24.gxh4 Nxe5 25.dxe5 Rg8 26.Qh5+ Kg7 27.Rg1+ Kf8 28.Qh6+ Rg7 29.Rxg7 Ke8 30.Qh8#

Houdini does not disagree with 17.Qh5:

[D]rn1q1rk1/2pb4/pn2p3/1p1pPpb1/3P4/1PNBB3/P1P1Q1PP/R4R1K w - - 0 17

Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32-2def:

1. = (0.00): 17.Qh5 Bxe3 18.Qg6+ Kh8 19.Rf3 Qh4 20.Rh3 Qxh3 21.gxh3 Nc6 22.Rg1 Bxg1 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Qh6+
2. = (0.00): 17.Rf3 Bh4 18.Rh3 Kg7 19.g3 Bg5 20.Rh7+ Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kg7 22.Bxg5 Qe8 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Bf6 Rxf6 25.exf6 Qf8 26.Qg6+ Kh8 27.Re1 Nc6 28.Qh5+ Kg8 29.Nxd5 exd5 30.Qg6+ Kh8 31.Qh5+ Kg8 32.Qg6+
3. -/+ (-0.98): 17.Bxg5 Qxg5 18.Rf3 Kf7 19.Rg3 Qh4 20.Rh3 Qg4 21.Qxg4 fxg4 22.Rf1+ Kg8 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.Rh8+ Ke7 25.Rh7+ Ke8 26.Rg7 Nc6 27.Rxg4 Nb4 28.Bg6+ Ke7 29.Rh4 Rf8 30.Rh7+ Kd8
Regards, Mike
Terry McCracken
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Location: Canada

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by Terry McCracken »

Mike S. wrote:
Mike S. wrote:Black's chance to draw was 19...Qh4!
I guess this was a kind of psychological problem, because with two extra pieces in a blitz game, Black certainly wanted to win and most probably did not consider to return material.

[D]rn1q1r1k/2pb4/pn2p1Q1/1p1pPp2/3P4/1PNBbR2/P1P3PP/R6K b - - 0 19

Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32-2def (at depth 22):

1. = (0.00): 19...Qh4 20.Rh3 Qxh3 21.gxh3 Nc6 22.Rg1 Bxg1 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Qh6+
2. +- (22.21): 19...Bf2 20.Rh3+ Qh4 21.Rxh4+ Bxh4 22.Rf1 Be8 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Rf4 Bh5 25.Qxh5 Rf7 26.Rxh4 Kf8 27.Qg5 Ke8 28.Rh8+ Kd7 29.Qg8 Rf8 30.Qxf8 Kc6 31.Qf7 Kb7 32.Qxe6 Nc6 33.Rxa8 Nxa8 34.Nxd5 Nd8 35.Qxf5 Nc6 36.Qf2 Nd8 37.h4 c6 38.Nf6 Nc7 39.h5 Nf7 40.Ne4 Nh6 41.Nd6+ Kb6 42.d5+ c5
3. +- (#11): 19...Bg5 20.Rh3+ Bh4 21.g3 Rf7 22.Qxf7 Nc6 23.Rxh4+ Qxh4 24.gxh4 Nxe5 25.dxe5 Rg8 26.Qh5+ Kg7 27.Rg1+ Kf8 28.Qh6+ Rg7 29.Rxg7 Ke8 30.Qh8#

Houdini does not disagree with 17.Qh5:

[D]rn1q1rk1/2pb4/pn2p3/1p1pPpb1/3P4/1PNBB3/P1P1Q1PP/R4R1K w - - 0 17

Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32-2def:

1. = (0.00): 17.Qh5 Bxe3 18.Qg6+ Kh8 19.Rf3 Qh4 20.Rh3 Qxh3 21.gxh3 Nc6 22.Rg1 Bxg1 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Qh6+
2. = (0.00): 17.Rf3 Bh4 18.Rh3 Kg7 19.g3 Bg5 20.Rh7+ Kxh7 21.Qh5+ Kg7 22.Bxg5 Qe8 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Bf6 Rxf6 25.exf6 Qf8 26.Qg6+ Kh8 27.Re1 Nc6 28.Qh5+ Kg8 29.Nxd5 exd5 30.Qg6+ Kh8 31.Qh5+ Kg8 32.Qg6+
3. -/+ (-0.98): 17.Bxg5 Qxg5 18.Rf3 Kf7 19.Rg3 Qh4 20.Rh3 Qg4 21.Qxg4 fxg4 22.Rf1+ Kg8 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.Rh8+ Ke7 25.Rh7+ Ke8 26.Rg7 Nc6 27.Rxg4 Nb4 28.Bg6+ Ke7 29.Rh4 Rf8 30.Rh7+ Kd8
Trust me...17. Qh5 is a mistake, Rf3!! and it's Curtains!
Terry McCracken
Terry McCracken
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Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by Terry McCracken »

fern wrote:Maybe is better to continue the exchanges in order to let the black queen compromised in a dangerous column.
Dunno.
Is what I would do after my half a minute analysis. I tend to play too fast and somewhat shallow for the same reason.
Your idea is good and probably winning but it is not as effective as the immediate 17. Rf3!.. Zugzwang, leaving Black hopeless and helpless.

Although I like it better than my messed move order with 17. Qh5?!

In Blitz mistakes abound and I use more intuition than calculation. It often works in Blitz but in longer games calculation wins out.
Terry McCracken
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fern
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Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by fern »

I tend to be extra blitz even in long games. My preferred rhythm is one hour for 40 moves, but that is just what the computer gets, because in fact I rarely use more than 15 minutes of the 60, which is bad. I can think fast, but at that speed you cannot go beyond, say, 6, 7 ply and the computer go to 20, so necessarily outplay me.
What a heck, I get my fun the same...

Fern
Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by Terry McCracken »

fern wrote:I tend to be extra blitz even in long games. My preferred rhythm is one hour for 40 moves, but that is just what the computer gets, because in fact I rarely use more than 15 minutes of the 60, which is bad. I can think fast, but at that speed you cannot go beyond, say, 6, 7 ply and the computer go to 20, so necessarily outplay me.
What a heck, I get my fun the same...

Fern
We're not so different, we both tend to play quickly and with a machine, well my intuition is not even close to being enough. Deep calculation which I practised when I was young-er is rather difficult today, much harder.
Terry McCracken
Robert Flesher
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by Robert Flesher »

Terry McCracken wrote:
fern wrote:Nice game, Terry, and you have the right to blown your horn. We are severely defeated so many times by machines that any victory must be tasted to the full.

hugs
Fern
Ha! Thanks, Fern.

Actually, I wanted people to test this position and see how hard 16. Nxg5 actually is for modern hardware and engines. Houdini took over 10 minutes to find the move!

Start You Engines, Please :)

[d]rn1q1rk1/2pbb3/pn2p3/1p1pPpp1/3P4/1PNBBN2/P1P1Q1PP/R4R1K w - - 0 16

Best Move, Nxg5


Very nice game Terry!


Not so difficult for my Evil little creation. Zappa Mexico , Dissident Aggressor. I am surprised more people do not use it. It is brilliant at find attacking ideas.


New game
rn1q1rk1/2pbb3/pn2p3/1p1pPpp1/3P4/1PNBBN2/P1P1Q1PP/R4R1K w - - 0 1

Analysis by Zappa Mexico II: Dissident Aggressor

16.Nxg5 Bxg5 17.Rf3 Bxe3 18.Rg3+ Bg5 19.Qh5 Rf7 20.Rxg5+ Rg7 21.Rxg7+ Kxg7 22.g4 Be8 23.Qh3 Qg5 24.gxf5 Qh5 25.Qg2+ Kf8 26.fxe6 Ke7 27.Rg1 b4 28.Be2 Qg6 29.Nxd5+ Nxd5 30.Qxd5
+- (2.43) Depth: 16/51 00:01:36 254mN
(Doe, 28.03.2012)
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fern
Posts: 8755
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:07 pm

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by fern »

Well, we are not of age to go deep in nothing, you know. We already did that, so we must now use the accumulated knowledge. What you call intuition is just that: you more or less consciously knows about what is going on in a position.
The fucking side of this is that positions are anyway so full of bloody tactical tricks that often your knowledge was right but not enough.

Things like "I was superior but that rook coming from nowhere...."

Fern
User avatar
fern
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:07 pm

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by fern »

hey, where I can get your thing?



Nobody tell nothing these days regards
Fern
A Distel
Posts: 3618
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Once in Awhile the Old Lion Wakes Up!

Post by A Distel »

fern wrote:hey, where I can get your thing?



Nobody tell nothing these days regards
Fern
Hi fern,

Dissident Agressor settings:

[ZappaMexicoII]
UCI_ShowCurrLine=2
Threads=auto
Enable Null Move=2
Enable History Pruning=2
Enable Singular Extensions=2
Enable Mate Extensions=2
Enable Futility Pruning=2
Aggressive Futility Pruning=2
TB Min Depth=4
Null Move R4 Min Depth=100
Singular Margin=75
Singular Margin PV=50
Eval Passed Pawn Scoring=125
Eval Pawn Scoring=135
Eval Minor Scoring=70
Eval Major Scoring=70
Eval Kingsafety Scoring=500
Internet Lag=0
Contempt=20
Hide Fail Highs=2
Print PV Tips=1

At your service Sir!