At a loss

Lyudmil Tsvetkov · Post by **Lyudmil Tsvetkov** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:11 am

[D]2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b 0 1

Hi.
I am at a loss about this position.
Looks simple, but tactics abound.
Maybe some engine output could help me to form a more knowledgeable opinion on it.

Many thanks in advance,
Lyudmil

chessico · Post by **chessico** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Hello Lyudmil,

I like your interesting positions and did some analysis of this one. It was interactive, not only waiting for the engine to move, and it should probably be cleaned up and improved, but I'd like to show the result up to now, nevertheless.

[FEN "2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - - 0 1"]

1... Bxh3
(1... f3 2. Nxc8 Rxc8 3.Bxf3)
2. bxc5
(2. Bf1 Bxg2) (2. gxh3 g4 3. Ra8 Rxa8 4. Nxa8 gxh3 5. Kh2 cxb4 (5... f3 6. Bf1 Ng4+ 7. Kxh3 h5 8. Nc7 Qxc7 9. Qe8+ Kg7 10. Qxh5 Nxf2+ 11. Kh2Nxe4) 6. Kxh3 f3 7. Bf1 Qf7 8. Nc7 Qxc7 9. Qxb4 Qe7 $19)
2... f3
(2... Bxg2 3.cxd6 Qf7 4. Kxg2 g4 5. Kg1 Nf3+ 6. Kg2 Nd4 (6... Qh5 7. Rh1 Ne1+ 8. Kg1) 7. Qb2f3+ 8. Kf1 Nxe2 9. Ra8 Rxa8 10. Nxa8 g3 11. fxg3 Nxg3+ 12. Kf2 Nxe4+ 13. Kxf3 Nxd6)
3. cxd6
(3. Bf1 fxg2 4. Be2 Ng6)
3... Qg7 4. Bxf3
(4. Bf1 fxg2 (4... g4)5. Bxg2 g4 6. Ra8 Rxa8 (6... Qg5 7. Rxg8+ Kxg8 8. Qb2 Nf3+ 9. Kf1 Bxg2+ 10.Kxg2 Qh6 11. Kf1 Qh1+ 12. Ke2 Qe1+ 13. Kd3 Qd1+ 14. Kc3 Qd4+ 15. Kc2 Qxf2+ 16.Kb1 Qxb2+ 17. Kxb2 Kf7) 7. Nxa8 Qg5 8. Qb2 Nf3+ 9. Kf1 Bxg2+ 10. Kxg2 Qh4 11.Kf1 Qh1+ 12. Ke2 Qe1+ 13. Kd3 Ne5+ 14. Kd4 g3 15. fxg3 Qd1+ 16. Kc5)

4... g4 5. Be2 g3 6. Qc5 (6. f3 Qh6) 6... gxf2+ 7. Qxf2 Bxg2 8. Ra8 Bh3+ 9. Kh1 Bc8 10. Ra1 Qh6+ 11. Qh2 Bh3 12. Rg1 Qh4 13. Rxg8+ Kxg8 14. d7 Qxe4+ 15. Kg1 Qb1+ 16. Kf2 Qxb6+ 17. Ke1 Bxd7 *

I think the general picture is clear, Black can win, but you are a stronger player than me and maybe these lines can be useful for you, however messy the presentation may still be, sorry for that.

velmarin · Post by **velmarin** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:14 pm

Hello my friend,

Bouquet says that after a while,
Their positions are too early, in my opinion,
So many pieces, it's complicated, it requires plans, I think that is beyond the scope of the engines.

Code: Select all

Nueva partida
2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Bouquet DEV pop64&#58;

1. -/+  (-0.72&#41;&#58; 1...Axh3 2.bxc5 dxc5 3.Ah5 g4 4.Ta8 Txa8 5.Cxa8 f5 6.gxh3 gxh3 7.Rh2 fxe4 8.De8+ Dxe8 9.Axe8 e3 10.fxe3 Cf3+ 11.Rxh3 fxe3 12.d6 e2 13.d7 Cg5+ 14.Rg2 e1D 15.d8D De4+ 16.Rg3 De5+ 17.Rf2 Ce6 18.Dd5 Db2+ 19.Rg3 Dg7+ 20.Rh2 Db2+ 21.Rg3 
2. =  &#40;0.00&#41;&#58; 1...g4 2.Cxc8 Dg7 3.hxg4 Cxg4 4.Ce7 Cxf2 5.Af3 Ch3+ 6.Rh2 Dg3+ 7.Rh1 Cf2+ 8.Rg1 Ch3+ 9.Rh1 
3. =  &#40;0.00&#41;&#58; 1...Dg7 2.Cxc8 g4 3.hxg4 Cxg4 4.Ce7 Cxf2 5.Af3 Ch3+ 6.Rh2 Dg3+ 7.Rh1 Cf2+ 8.Rg1 Ch3+ 9.Rh1 
4. =  &#40;0.27&#41;&#58; 1...cxb4 2.Cxc8 Txc8 3.Dxb4 Dc7 4.Ta5 b6 5.Ta6 Tb8 6.Da3 Tb7 7.h4 Rg7 8.hxg5 fxg5 9.Db4 Tb8 10.Dc3 Tb7 11.Dd4 Tb8 12.Ta1 
5. +/=  &#40;0.64&#41;&#58; 1...Ad7 2.Cxd7 Dxd7 3.Dxd7 Cxd7 4.Ag4 Ce5 5.bxc5 dxc5 6.Ae2 Rg7 7.Ta5 Tc8 8.Tb5 Tc7 9.Rf1 h5 10.Tb6 g4 11.f3 g3 12.Re1 Cd7 13.Te6 Cf8 14.Te8 Rf7 15.Ta8 Td7

M ANSARI · Post by **M ANSARI** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:27 pm

Looks like Bxh3 wins!

Ajedrecista · Post by **Ajedrecista** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:29 pm

Hello Lyudmil:

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:[D]2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b 0 1

Hi.
I am at a loss about this position.
Looks simple, but tactics abound.
Maybe some engine output could help me to form a more knowledgeable opinion on it.

Many thanks in advance,
Lyudmil

Analysis by Hannibal 1.3 w32 (using two cores) in an Intel Pentium D930 (3 GHz), with 512 MB of hash, running under Arena 2.0.1 GUI:

FEN: 2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - - 0 1

Hannibal1.3x32:
8- 00:00 14.919 236.809 -0,88 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3
8 00:00 18.257 234.064 -0,85 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 Ne5xg4 h3xg4 d6xc5 Ra1a7
9 00:00 29.799 317.010 -0,91 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 Ne5xg4 h3xg4 d6xc5 Ra1a7
10 00:00 53.629 341.585 -0,65 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Ra1b1 Rg8b8 Bg4e2 b7b6
11 00:00 120.197 426.230 -0,61 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5b6 c5xb4 Qb6xb4 Rg8c8 Ra1a7 Rc8b8
12 00:01 212.703 412.215 -0,63 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Ra1a5 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 Kh8g7 c4c5 d6xc5 Ra5xc5 Qd7e7
13 00:01 384.595 464.486 -0,74 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Ra1a5 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Qd7xh3 b4xc5 Qh3xf3 c5xd6 Qf3g4+ Kg1f1 Qg4d1+ Kf1g2 Qd1g4+
14 00:01 563.073 500.509 -0,74 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Ra1a5 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Qd7xh3 b4xc5 Qh3xf3 c5xd6 Qf3g4+ Kg1f1 Qg4d1+ Kf1g2 Qd1g4+
15 00:02 1.159.002 522.308 -0,58 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 b4xc5 Qd7xb5 c4xb5 d6xc5 Ra1a7 Rg8b8 Kg1f1 Kh8g7 Kf1e1 Kg7f7 Ke1d2 Kf7e7 Kd2c3 Ke7d6 Be2g4 h7h6 b5b6 Ne5xg4 h3xg4
16 00:04 2.081.828 562.200 -0,56 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5b6 c5xb4 Qb6xb4 Qd7c7 Ra1b1 Rg8b8 Qb4b6 Qc7c5 Qb6xc5 d6xc5 f2f3 Kh8g7 Kg1f2 Kg7f7 d5d6 Kf7e6
17 00:05 2.858.269 578.831 -0,56 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5b6 c5xb4 Qb6xb4 Qd7c7 Ra1b1 Rg8g7 Qb4c3 Rg7g8 Qc3b2 Rg8b8 Qb2b6 Qc7c5 Rb1b5 Qc5a3 Qb6c7 Qa3c1+ Kg1h2
18 00:09 5.310.416 617.921 -0,57 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Bg4e2 Kh8g7 Kg1f1 Rg8b8 Ra1a5 b7b6 Ra5a7+ Kg7g6 Kf1e1 h7h5 Ke1d2 h5h4 Kd2c3 Rb8d8 Ra7a1
19 00:11 6.801.362 627.200 -0,60 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Bg4e2 Kh8g7 Kg1f1 Kg7g6 Kf1e1 Ne5f7 Ke1d2 Nf7d6 Kd2d3 h7h5 Be2d1 b7b6 Ra1a7 b6b5
20 00:19 12.146.043 643.498 -0,55 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Bg4e2 Kh8g7 Kg1f1 Kg7g6 Kf1e1 f6f5 e4xf5+ Kg6xf5 Ra1a7 Rg8b8 Ke1d2 h7h6 Kd2c3 b7b6 Be2d1 Rb8e8 Bd1c2+ Kf5f6
21 00:27 17.377.215 657.281 -0,49 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Bg4e2 Kh8g7 Kg1f1 Kg7g6 Kf1e1 f6f5 e4xf5+ Kg6xf5 Ra1a7 Rg8b8 Ke1d2 f4f3 g2xf3 Kf5f4 d5d6 h7h5
22 00:42 27.716.926 664.865 -0,52 Bc8d7 Nb6xd7 Qe7xd7 Qb5xd7 Ne5xd7 Be2g4 Nd7e5 b4xc5 d6xc5 Bg4e2 Kh8g7 Kg1f1 Kg7g6 Kf1e1 f6f5 e4xf5+ Kg6xf5 Ra1a7 Rg8b8 Ke1d2 f4f3 g2xf3 Kf5f4 Kd2c3 h7h5 Be2d1 b7b5 c4xb5 Rb8xb5
23 02:46 110.088.198 664.118 -0,41 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 Bh3xg2 c5xd6 Qe7g7 Ra1a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Bg2xe4 Qb5e8+ Qg7g8 d6d7 Ne5xd7 Qe8xd7 f4f3 Be2xf3 Be4xf3 Qd7e7 f6f5 Qe7xb7 Qg8e8 Qb7b4 Kh8g8 Na8c7 Qe8e5 Nc7e6 Qe5a1+ Kg1h2 Qa1h1+
24 09:12 378.789.119 686.075 0,00 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 Bh3xg2 c5xd6 Qe7f7 Kg1xg2 g5g4 Kg2g1 Ne5f3+ Kg1g2 Nf3e5 Kg2g1
25 10:47 446.413.531 689.540 0,00 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 Bh3xg2 c5xd6 Qe7f7 Kg1xg2 g5g4 Kg2g1 Ne5f3+ Kg1g2 Nf3e5 Kg2g1

I stopped the analysis after 25 minutes. Hannibal only sees equality at depth 25.

------------------------

Analysis by Spark 1.0 w32 (using two cores) in an Intel Pentium D930 (3 GHz), with 512 MB of hash, running under Arena 2.0.1 GUI:

FEN: 2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Spark-1.0-win32-mp:
1 00:00 6 0 -0,77 c5xb4 Qb5xb4
1 00:00 54 0 -0,72 f4f3
2/1 00:00 237 0 -0,49 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 d6xc5
3/2 00:00 479 0 -0,49 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 d6xc5
4/4 00:00 997 0 -0,49 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 d6xc5
4/4 00:00 1.470 0 -0,38 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3
5/6 00:00 2.312 0 -0,38 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3
6/7 00:00 7.131 0 -0,40 c5xb4 f2f3 f6f5 Qb5xb4 f5xe4 f3xe4
7/9 00:00 16.884 0 -0,49 c5xb4 f2f3 f6f5 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 e4xf5 Ne5f7
7/9 00:00 23.253 0 -0,45 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 d6xc5 Ra1a7
8/9- 00:00 41.292 0 -0,70 f4f3 Be2xf3 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 d6xc5 Ra1a7
8/10 00:00 83.173 665.384 -0,71 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7
9/12- 00:00 110.371 707.506 -0,96 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7
9/12 00:00 130.966 761.430 -0,64 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7 f3f4 g5xf4
10/18 00:00 197.782 633.916 -0,64 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7 f3f4 g5xf4
11/22 00:00 373.687 569.644 -0,49 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Qb4b6 Kh8g7 f3f4 g5xf4
12/24 00:01 716.373 674.550 -0,47 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 f3f4 g5xf4 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7 f2f3 Qd7xh3 Qb4xd6 Qh3g3+ Kg1h1
13/27 00:01 1.500.061 787.020 -0,64 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8b8 Kg1h2 Qd7c7 f3f4 g5xf4 Kh2h1 Kh8g7
14/31 00:06 4.645.859 762.491 -0,66 c5xb4 Qb5xb4 f4f3 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 g2xf3 Qe7d7 Ra1a7 Rc8c7 Ra7a8+ Kh8g7 Ra8b8 h7h6 Rb8a8 Rc7c5 f3f4 g5xf4
15/33+ 00:17 13.457.479 785.150 -0,41 c5xb4 Qb5xb4
15/33 00:19 15.743.670 800.960 -0,44 c5xb4 f2f3 f6f5 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 e4xf5 Ne5f7 Ra1e1 Nf7h6 f5f6 Qe7xf6 Qb5xb4 Qf6d4+ Kg1h2 Nh6f5 Qb4xb7 Rc8e8
16/33 00:26 21.352.140 797.286 -0,47 c5xb4 f2f3 f6f5 Nb6xc8 Rg8xc8 e4xf5 Ne5f7 Ra1e1 Nf7h6 f5f6 Qe7xf6 Qb5xb4 Qf6d4+ Kg1h2 Nh6f5 Qb4xb7 Rc8e8 Re1d1
16/41+ 00:38 30.434.689 783.833 -0,19 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
16/41 00:42 33.449.219 783.868 0,00 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 f4f3 Be2f1 g5g4 Ra1a8 g4xh3+ Ra8xg8+ Kh8xg8 Bf1xh3 Qe7g7+ Kg1h1 Qg7h6 Qb5e8+ Kg8g7 Qe8e6 Qh6c1+ Kh1h2 Qc1f4+ Kh2g1 Qf4g5+ Kg1h1 Qg5c1+
17/44+ 01:25 61.881.365 723.631 +0,25 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
17/44+ 01:38 71.435.308 727.313 +0,50 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
17/44 01:44 76.999.546 738.937 +0,51 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5g4 Ra1a8 g4xh3+ Ra8xg8+ Kh8xg8 Kg1h2 f4f3 Be2f1 Ne5g4+ Kh2xh3 Ng4xf2+ Kh3g3 Nf2xe4+ Kg3xf3 Qe7e5 Qb5d7 Ne4d2+ Kf3g2 Qe5e4+ Kg2g1 Qe4e3+ Kg1h1 Nd2xf1 Qd7d8+ Kg8f7 Qd8xd6 Nf1g3+ Kh1g2 c5xb4 Qd6xb4
18/44 02:23 105.532.773 737.991 +0,58 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5g4 Ra1a8 g4xh3+ Ra8xg8+ Kh8xg8 Kg1h2 f4f3 Be2f1 Ne5g4+ Kh2xh3 Ng4xf2+ Kh3g3 Nf2xe4+ Kg3xf3 Qe7e5 Qb5d7 Ne4d2+ Kf3g2 Qe5g5+ Kg2f2 Qg5f4+ Kf2e2 Qf4h2+ Ke2d3 Nd2xf1 Qd7c8+ Kg8g7 Qc8xb7+ Kg7g6
19/45+ 04:14 183.519.617 721.144 +0,83 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
19/46+ 05:25 233.500.769 717.774 +1,08 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
19/46 06:07 266.313.972 725.127 +1,20 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5g4 Ra1a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 Kg1h2 f4f3 Be2f1 Ne5g4+ Kh2xh3 Ng4xf2+ Kh3g3 Nf2xe4+ Kg3xf3 Qe7e5 Qb5d7 Ne4d2+ Kf3g2 Qe5e4+ Kg2g1 Qe4e3+ Kg1h1 Nd2xf1 Qd7xd6 Nf1g3+ Kh1g2
20/56+ 11:18 467.706.499 689.436 +1,45 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
20/56- 14:05 575.410.447 680.719 +0,95 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
20/56- 17:13 700.488.531 677.731 +0,70 Bc8xh3 g2xh3
20/56 18:39 762.782.066 681.407 +1,12 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4f3 c5xd6 Qe7g7 Be2xf3 g5g4 Ra1a8 g4xf3 Ra8xg8+ Qg7xg8 g2g3 h7h5 Qb5b1 h5h4 Qb1c1 Qg8g5 Qc1xg5 f6xg5 c4c5 h4xg3 f2xg3
21/56+ 21:46 884.397.987 677.132 +1,37 Bc8xh3 b4xc5
21/56+ 25:28 1.035.462.674 677.264 +1,62 Bc8xh3 b4xc5
21/60+ 45:00 1.805.811.886 668.680 +1,62 Bc8xh3 b4xc5

I stopped the analysis after 45 minutes. Spark sees a black advantage with depths over 20.

I wonder about the analysis of Houdini 3 in fast hardware... it will surely display more than 50cp of advantage in favour of black.

Just a question: is it another invented position or is it from a real game? I bet for a King's Indian Defence if the position was reached in a real game.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

acase · Post by **acase** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:06 am

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:[D]2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b 0 1

Hi.
I am at a loss about this position.
Looks simple, but tactics abound.
Maybe some engine output could help me to form a more knowledgeable opinion on it.

Many thanks in advance,
Lyudmil

Stockfish says this is a clear victory for Black with a 4.40 advantage after a few hours thinking time:

FEN: 2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Stockfish-231-64-popcnt-ja:

35/72 50:02 15,796,389,967 5,261,205 +2.02 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 Kg1-h2 Qe7-f7 Na8-c7 Qf7xc7 b4xc5 f4-f3 Be2-f1 Ne5-g4+ Kh2xh3 Ng4xf2+ Kh3-g3 Nf2xe4+ Kg3xf3 Ne4xc5 Qb5-e8+ Kh8-g7 Kf3-f4 Qc7-f7 Qe8-d8 Qf7-d7 Qd8xd7+ Nc5xd7 Kf4-f5

36/72+ 56:19 18,011,315,301 5,330,177 +2.10 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 Kg1-h2

36/72+ 1:00:31 19,395,421,571 5,341,066 +2.18 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 Kg1-h2 f4-f3 Be2-f1

36/72+ 1:04:36 20,722,279,969 5,345,995 +2.30 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 b4xc5 Qe7-g7+ Kg1-f1

36/72+ 1:13:42 23,572,599,712 5,330,070 +2.48 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4xh3 Kg1-h2 f4-f3 Be2-f1 Ne5-g4+ Kh2xh3 Ng4xf2+

36/72+ 1:23:50 26,857,744,415 5,339,149 +2.75 Bc8xh3 g2xh3 g5-g4 h3xg4 f4-f3 Be2-d1

36/80 1:35:15 30,599,393,981 5,353,938 +2.54 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4 Kg2-f1 Qh4-h1+ Kf1-e2 Qh1-e1+ Ke2-d3 Nf3-e5+ Kd3-d4 g4-g3 f2xg3 Qe1-d1+ Kd4-c3 Qd1-d3+ Kc3-b4 Qd3xc4+ Kb4-a3 Qc4-a6+ Ka3-b3 Qa6xa8 Qb2-c3 b7-b5 Qc3-c5 Qa8-g8 Qc5-f2 Qg8-f8 Qf2-b6 Ne5-c4 Qb6xb5 Nc4xd6 Qb5-b4 Kh8-g7 Kb3-c2 Qf8-e7

37/80- 1:37:49 31,475,966,731 5,362,393 +2.46 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4 Kg2-f1

37/80- 1:38:26 31,688,467,258 5,365,285 +2.38 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4 Kg2-f1

37/80- 1:39:33 32,077,322,631 5,369,677 +2.26 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4

37/80- 1:40:28 32,393,133,260 5,373,361 +2.08 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4 Kg2-f1

37/97+ 1:52:14 36,326,751,230 5,394,538 +2.62 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 Qg7-g5 Qb5-b2 Ne5-f3+ Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2 Qg5-h4 Kg2-f1

37/97+ 2:07:10 41,234,271,197 5,403,691 +3.03 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2

37/97+ 2:37:39 51,359,014,182 5,429,491 +3.64 Bc8xh3 b4xc5 f4-f3 c5xd6 Qe7-g7 Be2-f1 f3xg2 Bf1xg2 g5-g4 Kg1-f1 Bh3xg2+ Kf1xg2

37/98 3:42:56 73,589,176,216 5,501,566 +4.24 Bc8xh3 Be2-f1 Bh3xg2 Kg1xg2 f4-f3+ Kg2-g1 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4-g3 f2xg3 Ne5-g4 Na8-c7 f3-f2+ Kg1-g2 Qe7xe4+ Kg2-h3 Ng4-e3 Qb5-e8+ Qe4xe8 Nc7xe8 c5xb4 Ne8xd6 b4-b3 Nd6-b5 Ne3xf1 Kh3-g2 b3-b2 Nb5-a3 Nf1-e3+ Kg2xf2 Ne3xc4 Na3-b1 Kh8-g7 Kf2-e2 b7-b5 Ke2-d3 f6-f5 Kd3-c2 Kg7-f6 Nb1-c3 b5-b4 Nc3-d1 b4-b3+ Kc2-b1 Kf6-e5 Nd1xb2 Ke5xd5 Nb2-d3 Kd5-d4 Nd3-f4 Kd4-e4 Nf4-e6 Ke4-d5 Ne6-g7 Kd5-e5

38/98 4:06:23 81,335,677,145 5,501,920 +4.24 Bc8xh3 Be2-f1 Bh3xg2 Kg1xg2 f4-f3+ Kg2-g1 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4-g3 f2xg3 Ne5-g4 Na8-c7 f3-f2+ Kg1-g2 Qe7xe4+ Kg2-h3 Ng4-e3 Qb5-e8+ Qe4xe8 Nc7xe8 c5xb4 Ne8xd6 b4-b3 Nd6-b5 Ne3xf1 Kh3-g2 b3-b2 Nb5-a3 Nf1-e3+ Kg2xf2 Ne3xc4 Na3-b1 Kh8-g7 Kf2-e2 b7-b5 Ke2-d3 f6-f5 Kd3-c2 Kg7-f6 Nb1-c3 b5-b4 Nc3-d1 b4-b3+ Kc2-b1 Kf6-e5 Nd1xb2 Ke5xd5 Nb2-d3 Kd5-d4 Nd3-f4 Kd4-e4 Nf4-e6 Ke4-d5 Ne6-g7

39/98+ 4:51:47 96,386,224,630 5,505,397 +4.32 Bc8xh3 Be2-f1 Bh3xg2 Kg1xg2 f4-f3+ Kg2-g1 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4-g3 f2xg3 Ne5-g4 Na8-c7 f3-f2+ Kg1-g2 Qe7xe4+ Kg2-h3 Ng4-e3 Qb5-e8+ Qe4xe8 Nc7xe8 Ne3xf1

39/98+ 6:02:14 120,510,141,281 5,544,660 +4.40 Bc8xh3 Be2-f1 Bh3xg2 Kg1xg2 f4-f3+ Kg2-g1 g5-g4 Ra1-a8 Rg8xa8 Nb6xa8 g4-g3 f2xg3 Ne5-g4 Bf1-g2 f3xg2 Na8-c7 Qe7xc7 b4xc5 Qc7xc5+ Kg1xg2 Qc5-f2+

Eelco de Groot · Post by **Eelco de Groot** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:56 pm

acase wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:[D]2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b 0 1

Hi.
I am at a loss about this position.
Looks simple, but tactics abound.
Maybe some engine output could help me to form a more knowledgeable opinion on it.

Many thanks in advance,
Lyudmil

Stockfish says this is a clear victory for Black with a 4.40 advantage after a few hours thinking time:

Here is another result from Stockfish, slightly changed, just for comparison and testing, this is the modified master of 2013-01-16, on slower hardware and 32 bits, I just let it run through 35 plies, that took about two hours:

2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - -

Engine: Modmaster 130116 Build 36 (Q6700, 4 threads, 512 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba and Joona Kiiski

17/24 0:01 -1.36 1...cxb4 2.Qxb4 f3 3.Nxc8 Rxc8
4.gxf3 Rc7 5.Ra7 Qd7 6.Ra5 Ng6 7.Qb6 Nf4
8.Bf1 Kg7 9.Ra7 Kg6 10.c5 dxc5
11.Bb5 Nxh3+ 12.Kf1 (3.929.426) 2678

18/29 0:04 -1.66 1...cxb4 2.Qxb4 f3 3.Nxc8 Rxc8
4.gxf3 Qd8 5.Ra7 b6 6.Kf1 Kg8 7.Ra6 Rb8
8.h4 Qc7 9.hxg5 fxg5 10.Qd2 h6 11.f4 Nxc4
12.Qc1 (11.729.502) 2875

19/29 0:05 -1.58++ 1...cxb4 2.Qxb4 f3 3.Nxc8 Rxc8
4.Bxf3 Rxc4 5.Ra8+ Kg7 (14.925.340) 2888

19/29 0:05 -1.50++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.hxg4 f3 4.Bf1 Rxg4+
5.Kh2 f5 6.Ra8+ Kg7 7.Bh3 Qh4 (17.085.135) 2896

19/29 0:05 -1.38++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.hxg4 f3 4.Bf1 Rxg4+
5.Kh2 f5 6.Ra8+ Kg7 7.Bh3 Qh4 (17.374.702) 2899

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.
.
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32/54 28:50 +2.42 1...Bxh3 2.bxc5 f3 3.cxd6 Qg7 4.Bxf3 g4
5.Be2 g3 6.Qc5 gxf2+ 7.Qxf2 Qxg2+
8.Qxg2 Rxg2+ 9.Kf1 Rh2+ 10.Kg1 Rxe2
11.Ra3 Bg4 12.c5 Rxe4 13.Ra7 Rb4
14.d7 Nxd7 (5.432.871.354) 3139

33/60 32:21 +2.51++ 1...Bxh3 2.bxc5 f3 3.cxd6 Qg7 4.Bxf3 g4
5.Be2 g3 6.Qc5 gxf2+ 7.Qxf2 Qxg2+
8.Qxg2 Rxg2+ 9.Kf1 Rh2+ 10.Kg1 Rxe2
11.Ra3 (6.112.204.909) 3148

33/62 36:01 +2.59++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.Kh2 (6.806.732.194) 3149

33/62 41:31 +2.71++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.f3 (7.839.916.049) 3147

33/62 50:28 +2.89++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3 (9.540.013.010) 3149

33/62 61:17 +2.94 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.Kh2 cxb4 6.Kxh3 f3 7.Bxf3 Nxf3
8.Qxb4 h5 9.Kg2 Qxe4 10.Qxd6 Nh4+
11.Kf1 Qxc4+ 12.Kg1 Qg4+ 13.Qg3 Qd1+
14.Kh2 Nf3+ (11.624.520.077) 3161

34/62 65:37 +2.94 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.Kh2 cxb4 6.Kxh3 f3 7.Bxf3 Nxf3
8.Qxb4 h5 9.Kg2 Qxe4 10.Qxd6 Nh4+
11.Kf1 Qxc4+ 12.Kg1 Qg4+ 13.Qg3 Qd1+
14.Kh2 Nf3+ (12.425.361.002) 3155

35/62 87:20 +3.03++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.bxc5 (16.768.618.304) 3199

35/62 90:13 +2.86-- 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.Kh2 (17.402.548.276) 3214

35/62 105:53 +3.11++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.bxc5 (20.455.999.386) 3219

35/64 124:30 +3.29++ 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.hxg4 f3 4.Kf1 fxe2+
5.Kxe2 Nxg4 6.Ra8 Rxa8 7.Nxa8 (24.185.773.632) 3237

35/64 129:47 +3.27 1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 g4 3.Ra8 Rxa8 4.Nxa8 gxh3
5.Kh2 cxb4 6.Kxh3 f3 7.Bxf3 Nxf3
8.Qxb4 h5 9.Kg2 Qxe4 10.Qxd6 Nh4+
11.Kf1 Qxc4+ 12.Kg1 Qg4+ 13.Qg3 Qd1+
14.Kh2 Nf3+ (25.352.246.867) 3255

best move: Bc8xh3 time: 130:00.222 min n/s: 3.255.651 nodes: 25.352.246.867

Eelco

Lyudmil Tsvetkov · Post by **Lyudmil Tsvetkov** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:57 am

Thank you, Albert, Jose, Mr. Ansari (I do not know your first name), Jesus, Andrew and Eelco! Thank you very much for the help! I feel so much more at ease reading and posting into some threads of substance.

The position is actually from a game of mine against an older version of Stockfish. I played 1...Bh3 and the game ended in a draw, but I really was clueless as to the objective status of the position, if it is a draw, or maybe black or white is winning, as engines almost always play tactically-rich positions much better than humans. When you have one of those positions, it is better to rely on engine output, unless you are willing to spend couple of days analysing it on your own.

I think the opening was a Ruy Lopez that more or less transposed to King's Indian-inspired structures.

I will have to look at the lines more carefully. It is interesting that most engines see 1...Bh3 as winning, I am not sure myself at all. It is also interesting that latest development version of Stockfish gives higher scores to 1...cb4. The choice of Spark as an analysis engine was also perfect, as it is one of the best attackers out there, if not the best.

I will look more carefully again at the lines. Many thanks again for the help!

Best regards,
Lyudmil

At a loss

At a loss

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