Yes, but I was referring to Komodo's alleged NUMA bug that lowers its nps by 20% without changing the number of cores. (I do not know if Mark has really confirmed that there is a problem in the latest version, but it is clear that Komodo's reported nps has decreased.)corres wrote:If the enhancement of speed derived from using higher clock frequency of CPUs, you are right. But in the case of TCEC the enhancement in speed and chess power (Elo) arose from the higher number of cores. It is proved that if you enhance the number of cores the relative speed growth will be higher than the relative growth of chess power.
TCEC 10
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Re: TCEC 10
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Re: TCEC 10
Sorry it is you that doesn't understand statistics. The type of calculation you do is only valid after a test has finished. Otherwise you could stop a test when LOS>=95% and everyone here knows that that does not work.
Milos wrote:I am suggesting you don't understand much about statistics. Probability is trinomial not binomial, draw probability plays a serious role. +1=99-0 is few orders of magnitude more reliable statistics than +1=0-0. Therefore, your simplified comparison with coin toss is just a wrong straw man. Chance that K is not worse than H is cdf for x>2.5sigma which is around 1% not 6.25% as your oversimplified "calculation" suggests.syzygy wrote:In a match with two equally strong engines, there is a 1 in 16 probability that the first 5 wins are by the same engine. Are you seriously claiming that there is no such thing as a 1 in 16 event?
20% lower nps at TCEC TC (obvious sore looser excuse btw.) and that strong hardware is at best 10Elo. Houdini's advantage is clearly over 10Elo in the worst case (best for Komodo).But I was not even suggesting that they are equally strong. I just pointed out that there is no reason to suspect that the version of Komodo now playing is seriously bugged, i.e. beyond having lower nps than the earlier versions.
Again you are just mixing apples and oranges. Draw probability is not even remotely similar as to the one in TCEC. In addition TC plays a role. It's a proven fact that extremely long TC's reduce error bars compared to extremely short. Your test is most probably from bullet. So again totally incomparable. Moreover, quoting once in a blue moon event as some example against solid statistics is really the basic fallacy that ppl who don't know much about statistics so often do.I recently ran a test that had one engine lead the other 10-1-19 before it got trashed. It just got lucky in those first 30 games. Such things happen all the time.
Ideas=science. Simplification=engineering.
Without ideas there is nothing to simplify.
Without ideas there is nothing to simplify.
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Re: TCEC 10
You suppose 50 Elo enhancement. I think it is too high at the conditions of TCEC. For me a growth of ~20 Elo is more real based on the above.
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Re: TCEC 10
Next season I hope TCEC will pick Asmfish instead of Stockfish.
Choosing Stockfish is worse than the Komodo 20% slow down due to a NUMA bug.
Not only because it is intentional but also because the slow down is greater than 20% I believe. Anyone please correct me.
Choosing Stockfish is worse than the Komodo 20% slow down due to a NUMA bug.
Not only because it is intentional but also because the slow down is greater than 20% I believe. Anyone please correct me.
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Re: TCEC 10
TCEC does not allow stockfish derivatives such asIsaac wrote:Next season I hope TCEC will pick Asmfish instead of Stockfish.
Choosing Stockfish is worse than the Komodo 20% slow down due to a NUMA bug.
Not only because it is intentional but also because the slow down is greater than 20% I believe. Anyone please correct me.
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Re: TCEC 10
[profanity], this is a pedantic, argumentative bunch!
Have any of the people lecturing the world on "correct statistics" even looked at the bleeping games???
IMO, Houdini has a clear 'pull' over Komodo in the middle-game, and is generally the one with winning chances. Combine that with the current score and - yea - I'd call it a 'thrashing.'
Have any of the people lecturing the world on "correct statistics" even looked at the bleeping games???
IMO, Houdini has a clear 'pull' over Komodo in the middle-game, and is generally the one with winning chances. Combine that with the current score and - yea - I'd call it a 'thrashing.'
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Re: TCEC 10
Well it ain't over till it's over, however I do agree with you about the current state of affairs. Of the 5 wins so far, game number 12 has been my favorite.Geonerd wrote:[profanity], this is a pedantic, argumentative bunch!
Have any of the people lecturing the world on "correct statistics" even looked at the bleeping games???
IMO, Houdini has a clear 'pull' over Komodo in the middle-game, and is generally the one with winning chances. Combine that with the current score and - yea - I'd call it a 'thrashing.'
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Ted Summers
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Ted Summers
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Re: TCEC 10
With courtesy copied from Adam Hair's blog Haven't looked at the bleeping games yet, sorry. Not that I call Houdini a beancounter I just thought of this 'echo from the past'. When there's a speed difference you get things like that.It's the search gap. Gettit ? Out of this search gap comes all the naive speculation and nonsense that gets written. The program has every style and no style, it has no consistency to play against, only materialism, you can't learn from it, tomorrow it will be different (found another mine in the search gap), only the difference is just a relection of - whoops, trod on another mine. What can you do with such a program ? Use the take-back key and try again ? - and imagine this helps you improve or learn ?
Now, I claim this search gap has no meaning or understanding possibilities for a human. That a human can't relate his heuristics to it. That you can't extract the knowledge out of it and represent it to a human. That you can't even extract the knowledge out of it and represent it to yourself. You can't get heuristics from it. So I call it counting beans - useless for us humans.
Now, take a knowledge program, you can play it and see the play style. You can try and work out what it does and why. There'll be a reason, based on human chess heuristics. The game has plan, and flow, and doesn't consist of hidden minefields. It won't grind you down by search, it will try speculative ideas which it might, or might not, be able to get to work. You can see the speculative ideas, and try them yourself. I think you can, as a human, relate to this type of program. If you know the programmer, maybe you can see patterns into the program that come from him, and so on. I think these types of programs are infused with some force, in so far as any chunk of silicon can be.
I hate materialists.
Chris Whittington
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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Re: TCEC 10
Geonerd wrote:[profanity], this is a pedantic, argumentative bunch!
Have any of the people lecturing the world on "correct statistics" even looked at the bleeping games???
IMO, Houdini has a clear 'pull' over Komodo in the middle-game, and is generally the one with winning chances. Combine that with the current score and - yea - I'd call it a 'thrashing.'
Indeed, that is how it is here at the computer chess club. Everyone has an ego, and nobody will ever give an inch (or centimeter) in admitting they might be wrong. Not only that, they get into all of these irrelevant side arguments like nit-picking every single technicality and trashing the other guy's grammar or spelling. It is the same way over at the chess thinkers forum.
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Re: TCEC 10
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Ted Summers
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Ted Summers