TCEC 10

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Dirt
Posts: 2851
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Location: Irvine, CA, USA

Re: TCEC 10

Post by Dirt »

Nay Lin Tun wrote:
Dirt wrote: An argument could be made that fewer losses is more important than more wins.
No need to make arguments, 1 win with 1 loss will get the same score as 2 draws. (You can see in the rules,) But in comparison of scores between engines A -10 draws vs Engine B 9 win 1 loss. Engine B will advance. and that should logically be!
The problematic situation is Stockfish with no losses but three fewer wins versus one loss and three more wins for Houdini and Komodo. The rules do say that Stockfish failed, but I'm not at all sure that it would be the weaker program.
Deasil is the right way to go.
jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: TCEC 10

Post by jhellis3 »

The problem is with the tournament format. It either needed another RR before the superfinal, or to be a knockout match style tournament. As it is now, there are 8 engines 4 of which have a 0% chance of advancing. So 25% of the games are effectively meaningless and can only serve to add noise do to the random nature of the openings selected.

A knockout style tournament would have none of these problems. The engines are seeded and play 4 matches 1&8, 2&7, 3&6, 4&5 say of 10 openings. That gives 20 games per match x 4 matches = 80 games. The 4 winners do so again in 2 matches of 20 openings for the same number of 80 games. And the final is 40 openings for the same 80 games. 240 games total for the entire event.

This completely avoids random chance benefiting one engine over another in the openings given to it. Of course, without any controversy, what would people complain about?
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12536
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Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: TCEC 10

Post by Dann Corbit »

jhellis3 wrote:The problem is with the tournament format. It either needed another RR before the superfinal, or to be a knockout match style tournament. As it is now, there are 8 engines 4 of which have a 0% chance of advancing. So 25% of the games are effectively meaningless and can only serve to add noise do to the random nature of the openings selected.

A knockout style tournament would have none of these problems. The engines are seeded and play 4 matches 1&8, 2&7, 3&6, 4&5 say of 10 openings. That gives 20 games per match x 4 matches = 80 games. The 4 winners do so again in 2 matches of 20 openings for the same number of 80 games. And the final is 40 openings for the same 80 games. 240 games total for the entire event.

This completely avoids random chance benefiting one engine over another in the openings given to it. Of course, without any controversy, what would people complain about?
The other games except for the top 3 are still meaningful.
The weaker engines play the role of spoiler.
No matter what format you choose or how many games you play two of the top three engines among Houdini, Stockfish, Komodo are going to advance and the format chosen will not change that.

As for a knockout tournament, you won't be able to reverse the books. The books are deliberately slanted as far as having intentionally unbalanced openings so that we will not have 110 draws and two decisive games for the contest.

In the end, there are 3 real engines with a chance for the finals. One will be left in the cold, perhaps a little unfairly. But a contest like this does not tell us which engine is strongest. It only names a champion.

And as far as knockout format for a world chess championship...
Alexander Khalifman.
Need I say more?
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: TCEC 10

Post by jhellis3 »

No matter what format you choose or how many games you play two of the top three engines among Houdini, Stockfish, Komodo are going to advance and the format chosen will not change that.
Strawman.
As for a knockout tournament, you won't be able to reverse the books.
Um... yes you can. If you had actually bothered to read what I wrote before responding.... you might have noticed I said have each of the 2 engine pairs play a 10 opening match with 20 games total. Hmmm.... I wonder why that could possibly be. To repeat those 10 openings perhaps?
Need I say more?
Not if you are going to keep posting drivel like that.
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AdminX
Posts: 6338
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Re: TCEC 10

Post by AdminX »

Kaboom-tastic Lopez!! 8-)

[pgn][Event "TCEC Season 10 - Stage 2"]
[Site "http://tcec.chessdom.com"]
[Date "2017.11.16"]
[Round "21"]
[White "Houdini 6.02"]
[Black "Komodo 1959.00"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3232"]
[ECO "C87"]
[EventDate "2017.11.07"]
[Mark "1"]
[Opening "Spanish: Closed, Averbakh, 7.c3 O-O 8.h3"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[TimeControl "5400+10"]
[WhiteElo "3184"]

{ WhiteEngineOptions: Protocol=UCI; Hash=16384; Threads=43; SyzygyPath=C:/Syzygy/; OwnBook=false; Ponder=false;, BlackEngineOptions: Protocol=UCI; Hash=16384; Threads=43; SyzygyPath=C:/Syzygy/; OwnBook=false; Ponder=false; } 1.e4 { book } 1...e5 { book } 2.Nf3 { book } 2...Nc6 { book } 3.Bb5 { book } 3...a6 { book } 4.Ba4 { book } 4...Nf6 { book } 5.O-O { book } 5...Be7 { book } 6.Re1 { book } 6...d6 { book } 7.c3 { book } 7...O-O { book } 8.h3 { book } 8...Be6 { d=29, pd=d4, mt=00:01:25, tl=01:29:54, s=13661 kN/s, n=1166050824, pv=Be6 d4 exd4 cxd4 d5 e5 Ne4 a3 Bf5 Be3 Qd7 Nbd2 Nxd2 Qxd2 b5 Bc2 Bxc2 Qxc2 Nd8 Bd2 h6 b4 Ne6 Rec1 Rab8 Qd3 Rbd8 Re1 c6 a4 Qb7 Rec1, tb=0, R50=50, wv=0.30, } 9.d4 { d=32, pd=exd4, mt=00:03:19, tl=01:28:10, s=66493 kN/s, n=13243761355, pv=d4 exd4 cxd4 d5 e5 Ne4 Nc3 Nxc3 bxc3 Bf5 Bc2 Bxc2 Qxc2 Na5 Be3 Nc4 Rad1 Qd7 Bg5 Bxg5 Nxg5 g6 Nf3 Rac8 Qc1 Kg7 Nd2 Nxd2 Qxd2 Kg8 Qe3 Rfe8 Rd3 Qe6 h4 Kg7 Qd2, tb=165, R50=50, wv=0.55, } 9...exd4 { d=32, pd=cxd4, mt=00:01:03, tl=01:29:00, s=14266 kN/s, n=912428510, pv=exd4 cxd4 d5, tb=11, R50=50, wv=0.30, } 10.cxd4 { d=30, mt=00:00:18, tl=01:28:02, s=68944 kN/s, n=1256787424, pv=cxd4, tb=0, R50=50, wv=0.54, } 10...d5 { d=31, pd=e5, mt=00:00:54, tl=01:28:15, s=17061 kN/s, n=934716647, pv=d5 e5 Ne4 Nbd2 Bf5 Bc2 Nxd2 Bxd2 Bxc2 Qxc2 Qd7 Rad1 Nd8 Ng5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Ne6 Be3 f5 f4 g6 a4 c6 g3 Qc7 Kg2 Rfe8 Qd2 a5 b3 Qe7 Re2 Qa3 Qc2 Qb4, tb=28, R50=50, wv=0.19, } 11.e5 { d=32, mt=00:02:56, tl=01:25:15, s=66514 kN/s, n=11768355144, pv=e5, tb=390, R50=50, wv=0.57, } 11...Ne4 { d=30, pd=Be3, mt=00:01:04, tl=01:27:21, s=26289 kN/s, n=1685930889, pv=Ne4 Be3 Na5, tb=18, R50=50, wv=0.21, } 12.Nc3 { d=32, pd=Bf5, mt=00:03:16, tl=01:22:09, s=66142 kN/s, n=12968905656, pv=Nc3 Bf5, tb=68, R50=50, wv=0.47, } 12...Nxc3 { d=30, pd=bxc3, mt=00:01:12, tl=01:26:19, s=43276 kN/s, n=3131004113, pv=Nxc3 bxc3 Na5 Qd3 Nc4 Nh2 c5 Bc2 g6 dxc5 Rc8 Bh6 Re8 Bb3 Rxc5 Qd4 Rc8 Ng4 Qb6 Nf6+ Bxf6 exf6 Qxd4 cxd4 Nd6 Bf4 Ne4 Be5 Nd2 Rac1 Rxc1 Rxc1 Nxb3 axb3 Rc8 Rxc8+ Bxc8 g4 Bd7, tb=68, R50=49, wv=0.15, } 13.bxc3 { d=31, mt=00:02:00, tl=01:20:19, s=66725 kN/s, n=8029056388, pv=bxc3, tb=58, R50=50, wv=0.59, } 13...Na5 { d=32, pd=Bc2, mt=00:01:10, tl=01:25:19, s=48265 kN/s, n=3389392039, pv=Na5 Bc2 Re8, tb=69, R50=50, wv=0.12, } 14.Qd3 { d=30, mt=00:03:06, tl=01:17:23, s=66349 kN/s, n=12357878820, pv=Qd3, tb=40, R50=50, wv=0.63, } 14...Nc4 { d=31, pd=Nh2, mt=00:01:15, tl=01:24:13, s=48997 kN/s, n=3698813507, pv=Nc4 Nh2 b5 Bc2 g6 Qg3 Re8 a4 c5 dxc5 Bxc5 Bg5 Qc7 Nf3 b4 cxb4 Bxb4 Rec1 Be7 Bd3 Rab8 Rcb1 Rbc8 Qf4 Bxg5 Qxg5 Qe7 Qh6 Qf8 Qf4 Qe7 Rc1 Kg7 Rab1 h6 Rc3 Rb8, tb=67, R50=49, wv=0.23, } 15.Nh2 { d=27, mt=00:01:36, tl=01:15:56, s=67237 kN/s, n=6508260196, pv=Nh2, tb=20, R50=49, wv=0.84, } 15...b5 { d=34, pd=Bc2, mt=00:02:01, tl=01:22:22, s=50251 kN/s, n=6081739219, pv=b5 Bc2 g6, tb=172, R50=48, wv=0.31, } 16.Bc2 { d=30, pd=g6, mt=00:03:01, tl=01:13:04, s=66394 kN/s, n=12045971425, pv=Bc2 g6, tb=572, R50=50, wv=0.77, } 16...g6 { d=33, pd=Qg3, mt=00:01:49, tl=01:20:43, s=50616 kN/s, n=5533414948, pv=g6 Qg3 Re8 Bh6 c5 dxc5 Bxc5 Nf3 Qd7 Rad1 Nb2 Rc1 Bf5 Nd4 Bxd4 cxd4 Bxc2 Rxc2 Nc4 Qf4 Qf5 Qxf5 gxf5 Rc3 Re6 Bg5 Rg6 Bf6 Rc8 h4 Rg4 Rf3 Nd2 Rxf5 Rc2 e6 fxe6 Rxe6 Ne4 h5 Nxf6 Rexf6 Rxa2 Rxd5, tb=1256, R50=50, wv=0.47, } 17.Qg3 { d=29, mt=00:01:00, tl=01:12:14, s=66787 kN/s, n=4045929365, pv=Qg3, tb=340, R50=50, wv=0.76, } 17...a5 { d=34, pd=Bh6, mt=00:04:35, tl=01:16:17, s=50706 kN/s, n=13987272459, pv=a5 Bh6 Re8 Rac1 Ra6 Bd3 c5 Nf3 cxd4 Nxd4 Rb6 Re2 Bh4 Qf4 Bc8 Nf3 Be7 Rd1 Be6 Nd4 Qd7 Rc2 Qc7 Qg3 Bd7 Re2 Qc8 Rc1 Bc5 Qf4 Qb8 Nf3 Be7 Bg5 Bxg5 Qxg5, tb=4587, R50=50, wv=0.39, } 18.Nf3 { d=28, mt=00:01:51, tl=01:10:32, s=66708 kN/s, n=7464333922, pv=Nf3, tb=73, R50=50, wv=0.95, } 18...Kg7 { d=31, pd=h4, mt=00:01:25, tl=01:15:01, s=51546 kN/s, n=4429302580, pv=Kg7 h4 h5 Bg5 Ra6 Bxe7 Qxe7 Ng5 Kh8 Bd3 b4 Rac1 Rc6 f4 Bg4 f5 gxf5 Qf4 Kg8 Bxf5 f6 exf6 Qxf6 Bh7+ Kg7 Qxf6+ Rfxf6 cxb4 axb4 Re8 Be6 Re1 Bf7 Nxf7 Kxh7 R1e7 Kg6 Rg8+ Kf5 Rg5+ Kf4 Kf2, tb=1691, R50=50, wv=0.58, } 19.h4 { d=31, mt=00:05:19, tl=01:05:23, s=66331 kN/s, n=21168893246, pv=h4, tb=4610, R50=49, wv=0.87, } 19...h5 { d=33, pd=Bd3, mt=00:01:55, tl=01:13:16, s=53067 kN/s, n=6112409492, pv=h5 Bd3 Ra6 Bg5 b4 Rac1 Rc6 Bxe7 Qxe7 Ng5 Qd7 Qf4 Qe7 Be2 Rh8 Red1 Bf5 Qg3 Rg8 Re1 Rh8 cxb4 axb4 e6 fxe6 Bxc4 Rxc4 Rxc4 dxc4 Qe5+ Kg8 d5 c3 dxe6 c2 Qd5 Rh6 Rc1 c5 g3 Kg7, tb=38868, R50=50, wv=0.56, } 20.Bg5 { d=28, mt=00:02:16, tl=01:03:16, s=68515 kN/s, n=9361271516, pv=Bg5, tb=3381, R50=50, wv=0.97, } 20...Ra6 { d=35, pd=Bxe7, mt=00:02:46, tl=01:10:39, s=53745 kN/s, n=8971144906, pv=Ra6 Bxe7 Qxe7 Ng5 Qd7 Bd3 b4 Be2 Rh8 Qf4 Qe7 Rad1 Rc6 Qg3 Qd7 Rc1 Rb6 Red1 c6 Re1 Nb2 Nxe6+ Qxe6 cxb4 axb4 Qb3 Nc4 Bxc4 dxc4 Rxc4 Ra8 Rxb4 Rxb4 Qxb4 Rxa2 Qc3 Ra4 Rc1 Qd5 Qxc6 Qxc6 Rxc6 Rxd4 g3 Rd5 f4, tb=109867, R50=50, wv=0.73, } 21.Bd3 { d=31, mt=00:04:10, tl=00:59:15, s=68636 kN/s, n=17210449778, pv=Bd3, tb=15227, R50=49, wv=0.94, } 21...Rb6 { d=35, pd=Bxe7, mt=00:02:27, tl=01:08:22, s=54562 kN/s, n=8031600178, pv=Rb6 Bxe7 Qxe7 Ng5 Qd7 Be2 Rh8 Rab1 b4 Rbd1 Rc6 Rc1 Rb6 Qf4 Qe7 Bd3 Nb2 Bb1 Nc4 Qg3 Qd7 Bc2 Rhb8 Bd3 Rc6 Qf4 Kg8 cxb4 axb4 Qf6 Rf8 Rc2 Ra8 Rce2 Rb6 Rc1 Ra3 Bb1, tb=118689, R50=49, wv=0.57, } 22.Bxe7 { d=31, mt=00:02:44, tl=00:56:41, s=69408 kN/s, n=11384375432, pv=Bxe7, tb=17632, R50=48, wv=0.95, } 22...Qxe7 { d=33, pd=Ng5, mt=00:00:49, tl=01:07:42, s=55112 kN/s, n=2725688383, pv=Qxe7 Ng5 Qd7, tb=20835, R50=50, wv=0.65, } 23.Ng5 { d=28, pd=Qd7, mt=00:01:20, tl=00:55:30, s=69953 kN/s, n=5663007962, pv=Ng5 Qd7 Re2 b4 Rc1 Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rce1 Kh8 Kh2 Ra6 Rb1 Rb6 f3 Kg8 Qf4 Qe7 Rd1 Rc6 g4 f6 exf6 Rxf6 Qg3 hxg4 fxg4 Qd7 Rde1 Bxg4 Re8+ Rf8, tb=5634, R50=50, wv=1.02, } 23...Qd7 { d=34, pd=Re2, mt=00:02:40, tl=01:05:12, s=54785 kN/s, n=8795557103, pv=Qd7 Re2 b4 Rc1 Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rec2 Ra8 Qf3 Bg4 Qf4 Be6 Qf6+ Kg8 Nxe6 Rxe6 Qg5 Rb6 Re2 Qe6 f4 Qg4 Bxc4 Rc6 Rec2 Qxg5 hxg5 Rxc4 Rxc4 dxc4 Rxc4 Rxa2 Rxb4 Rd2 Kh2 c6 Rc4 Kf8 Kg3 Ke7 Rxc6 Rxd4 Rf6, tb=188668, R50=50, wv=0.87, } 24.Re2 { d=30, pd=b4, mt=00:01:59, tl=00:53:41, s=71117 kN/s, n=8517050555, pv=Re2 b4 Rc1 Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rce1 Ra6 Qf4 Kg8 Qf6 Rb6 Rc1 Ra8 f3 Ra3 Bb1 Ra8 Kh2 Rf8 Bd3 Ra8 Rb1 Qe8 f4 Qd7 Rxb4 Rxb4 Bxg6 fxg6 Qxg6+ Qg7 Qxe6+ Kh8 Qxd5, tb=24652, R50=49, wv=1.04, } 24...b4 { d=35, pd=Rc1, mt=00:01:07, tl=01:04:14, s=57703 kN/s, n=3921444736, pv=b4 Rc1 Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rec2 Rb8 Nxe6+ Qxe6 Qg5 Kf8 f4 Ra8 f5 gxf5 Qxh5 Qg6 Qh8+ Qg8 Qxg8+ Kxg8 Bxc4 Rxc4 Rxc4 dxc4 Rxc4 Rxa2 Rxb4 Re2 g3 Re4 Kf2 Kg7 Rc4 c5 Rxc5 Rxd4 Kf3 Re4 Rd5 Rc4 Rd3 Ra4 Re3 Rd4 Ra3 Re4 Ra5 Rc4 Rd5 Re4, tb=292193, R50=49, wv=0.91, } 25.Rc1 { d=28, pd=Rc6, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:53:30, s=73509 kN/s, n=1500174646, pv=Rc1 Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rce1 Ra6 Qf4 Kg8 Qf6 Rb6 Rc1 Ra8 Nxe6 Qxe6 Qxe6 Rxe6 Bxc4 Rc6 Rec2 dxc4 Rxc4 Rca6 Rxb4 Rxa2 Rxc7 Re2 g3 Ra1+ Kg2 Raa2 Kf3 Rxf2+ Ke4 Ra3 d5 Rxg3 d6, tb=2529, R50=50, wv=1.13, } 25...Rc6 { d=36, pd=cxb4, mt=00:01:57, tl=01:02:26, s=58567 kN/s, n=6876744960, pv=Rc6 cxb4 axb4 Rec2 Rb6 Bxc4 dxc4 Nxe6+ Qxe6 Rxc4 Ra8 Qb3 c6 Rxb4 Rxb4 Qxb4 Rxa2 Qc4 Ra1 Qc2 Rxc1+ Qxc1 Qg4 Qxc6 Qxd4 Qf6+ Kg8 Kh2 Qd2 f3 Qe3 Qe7 Qd4 Qg5 Qd1 Qf4 Qd3 Kg3 Qd5 Qg5 Qd1 Qe7 Qg1 Qd8+ Kg7 Qg5 Qd4 Qf6+ Kg8 Kh2, tb=994732, R50=50, wv=0.92, } 26.cxb4 { d=30, mt=00:01:42, tl=00:51:58, s=73218 kN/s, n=7510815731, pv=cxb4, tb=65574, R50=49, wv=1.19, } 26...axb4 { d=37, pd=Rec2, mt=00:01:50, tl=01:00:46, s=60567 kN/s, n=6662965663, pv=axb4 Rec2 Rb8, tb=1857582, R50=50, wv=0.90, } 27.Rce1 { d=26, pd=Ra6, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:51:47, s=75094 kN/s, n=1555215601, pv=Rce1 Ra6 Qf4 Rc6 Rb1 Rb6 Qf6+ Kg8 Nxe6 Qxe6 Qxe6 fxe6 Rc1 Rf4 Bxc4 dxc4 Rxc4 c5 dxc5 Rxc4 cxb6 Rc6 Kh2 Rxb6 Rb2 Rc6 Rxb4 Rc2 Rb8+ Kf7 a4 Rxf2 Rb4 Ra2 Kg3 Ke7 Kf3 Kf7, tb=12357, R50=50, wv=1.06, } 27...Ra6 { d=41, pd=Qf4, mt=00:03:54, tl=00:57:01, s=60140 kN/s, n=14124685738, pv=Ra6 Qf4 Qe7 Qf6+ Qxf6 exf6+ Kh6 Rb1 Rb6 Rc1 Rc6 Bxc4 Rxc4 Rd1 Ra8 g3 c5 Nxe6 fxe6 dxc5 Rxc5 Rxe6 Rxa2 Rb6 Ra7 Re1 d4 Rxb4 d3 Rd4 Rf5 Re8 Rxf6 Rxd3 Ra1+ Kg2 Ra2 Rf3 Raa6 Rxf6 Rxf6 Rb8 Ra6 Rb7 Rd6 Ra7 Rf6 Re7 Ra6 Rc7, tb=3762289, R50=50, wv=0.71, } 28.Qf4 { d=29, mt=00:04:55, tl=00:47:01, s=74257 kN/s, n=21960849878, pv=Qf4, tb=1762302, R50=49, wv=1.48, } 28...Rc6 { d=38, pd=Rb1, mt=00:02:32, tl=00:54:39, s=59729 kN/s, n=9134730148, pv=Rc6 Rb1 Rb8 Qf6+ Kg8 Rc1 Ra8 Nxe6 Qxe6 Qxe6 Rxe6 Bxc4 Rc6 Rec2 Rxc4 Rxc4 dxc4 Rxc4 Rxa2 Rxb4 Rc2 Rb8+ Kg7 Rd8 Re2 f4 c6 Kh2 Re3 g3 Ra3 Kh3 Rd3 Kg2 Rc3 Rc8 Rc4 Kf3 Rxd4 Rxc6 Rd3+ Kg2 Rd2+ Kh3 Kf8 Rc7 Rd3 Ra7 Rd4 Kh2, tb=2256694, R50=49, wv=0.80, } 29.f3 { d=31, mt=00:01:07, tl=00:46:04, s=78107 kN/s, n=5235400781, pv=f3, tb=724770, R50=48, wv=1.78, } 29...Qe7 { d=36, pd=Qf6+, mt=00:01:57, tl=00:52:51, s=57989 kN/s, n=6811553363, pv=Qe7 Qf6+ Qxf6, tb=2633250, R50=50, wv=0.84, } 30.g4 { d=29, mt=00:01:11, tl=00:45:02, s=77381 kN/s, n=5562847080, pv=g4, tb=965251, R50=50, wv=2.17, } 30...Rh8 { d=32, pd=Bf5, mt=00:01:31, tl=00:51:29, s=64802 kN/s, n=5934952635, pv=Rh8 Bf5 hxg4 Bxe6 Rxe6 Qxg4 Kf8 Nxe6+ fxe6 Rg2 Qxh4 Qxh4 Rxh4 Rxg6 Ke7 Rg4 Rh7 Rb1 c5 dxc5 Kd7 f4 Kc6 Rg6 Kxc5 Rxe6 Nd2 Rc1+ Kd4 Rec6 Rg7+ Kh1 Ke4 Rc7 Rg8 Rc8 Rg7 R1c7 Rg6 Rc6 Rg7 R8c7 Rg8 e6 Rh8+ Kg2 Rg8+ Kf2, tb=1966261, R50=50, wv=2.13, } 31.Bf5 { d=30, mt=00:01:30, tl=00:43:42, s=78536 kN/s, n=7116657835, pv=Bf5, tb=2092492, R50=50, wv=2.33, } 31...hxg4 { d=35, pd=Bxe6, mt=00:02:17, tl=00:49:22, s=62891 kN/s, n=8616785834, pv=hxg4 Bxe6 Rxe6 Qxg4 Kf8 Nxe6+ Qxe6 Kf2 Qxg4 fxg4 Rxh4 Kg3 g5 Rb1 Ke8 Rxb4 Rh1 Rb8+ Ke7 Rb5 Rg1+ Kf3 Rf1+ Rf2 Re1 Rxd5 Re3+ Kg2 Re4 Rf5 c6 Rc5 Rxg4+ Kf3 Rxd4 Rxg5 Nb6 Rxc6 Nd7 Ra6 Nc5 Ra7+ Ke6 Rc7 Nd7 Ke3 Rd1 Ke2 Rh1 Rc6+ Ke7 e6 fxe6 Rg7+ Kd8 Rd6, tb=5727976, R50=49, wv=2.30, } 32.Bxe6 { d=31, mt=00:01:13, tl=00:42:38, s=82149 kN/s, n=6009951889, pv=Bxe6, tb=3062814, R50=50, wv=2.56, } 32...Rxe6 { d=35, pd=Qxg4, mt=00:01:50, tl=00:47:42, s=64425 kN/s, n=7093358859, pv=Rxe6 Qxg4 Kf8 Nxe6+ fxe6 Rh2 Qf7 Rg2 Ke8 Qxg6 Rxh4 Qxf7+ Kxf7 Rg4 Rh3 Kf2 Rh7 Rg5 Na3 Rc1 Ke8 Rcg1 Rh2+ R5g2 Rh5 Rg7 Kd8 Rc1 Nc4 Kg3 Kc8 f4 Rh8 Re1 Na3 f5 exf5 Rc1 Nc4 Rb1 Na3 Rxb4 Nc2 Ra4 Kb7, tb=8345440, R50=50, wv=2.51, } 33.Qxg4 { d=32, mt=00:02:02, tl=00:40:46, s=81593 kN/s, n=9957663496, pv=Qxg4, tb=6748586, R50=50, wv=2.83, } 33...Kf8 { d=35, pd=Nxe6+, mt=00:02:44, tl=00:45:08, s=79671 kN/s, n=13104546632, pv=Kf8 Nxe6+ Qxe6, tb=25354044, R50=50, wv=2.54, } 34.f4 { d=30, pd=Ke8, mt=00:01:28, tl=00:39:27, s=82550 kN/s, n=7341856650, pv=f4 Ke8 Rf1 c5 f5 gxf5 Rxf5 Rg8 Kf1 Rg7 Qh5 Kd7 Qh8 Reg6 Qa8 Qe6 Qa7+ Ke8 Qb8+ Kd7 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Qc8 Rf6 Ne7 Qxb4 Nf5 Qa4+ Kf8 Kf2 Nxh4 Rc2 Qb8 Qa6 Rxf6+ Qxf6 Kg8 Qa6 Rxg5 Rc8+ Qxc8 Qxc8+ Kg7 Qc6, tb=5005744, R50=50, wv=3.00, } 34...Ke8 { d=31, pd=Rf1, mt=00:01:22, tl=00:43:56, s=65862 kN/s, n=5407306783, pv=Ke8 Rf1 c5 Qg2 Rxh4 Qxd5 Rg4+ Kh2 Rxg5 fxg5 Nb6 Qxc5 Qxg5 Qb5+ Nd7 Qd3 Rc6 Qh3 Rc3 Rf3 Rxf3 Qxf3 Qh4+ Kg2 Ke7 Qd5 Qh5 Qe4 Qg5+ Kf1 Qh5 Ke1 Qg5 Kd1 Qf5 Qxf5 gxf5 Kc2 Ke6 Kb3 Kd5 Rf2 Kxd4 Rd2+ Kxe5 Rxd7, tb=7578843, R50=50, wv=2.63, } 35.Rf1 { d=29, mt=00:00:54, tl=00:38:43, s=81798 kN/s, n=4493124603, pv=Rf1, tb=2845033, R50=50, wv=3.29, } 35...c5 { d=32, pd=Qg2, mt=00:01:37, tl=00:42:29, s=66686 kN/s, n=6488889087, pv=c5 Qg2 Rxh4, tb=11782427, R50=49, wv=2.87, } 36.f5 { d=30, pd=gxf5, mt=00:00:51, tl=00:38:01, s=83389 kN/s, n=4334924057, pv=f5 gxf5 Rxf5 Rg8 Kf1 Rg7 Qh5 Kd7 Qh8 Reg6 Qa8 Qe6 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Qc8 Rf6 Ne7 Qxb4 Nf5 Qa4+ Kf8 Kf2 Rxg5 Qb4+ Ne7 hxg5 Rxg5 e6 Qc7 Rxf7+ Kg8 Rf3 Rg4 Kf1 Qc1+ Re1 Qc7 Qb5 Rf4 Qe8+ Kg7 Qh5 Qc4+ Re2, tb=4327774, R50=50, wv=3.74, } 36...gxf5 { d=30, pd=Rxf5, mt=00:00:46, tl=00:41:52, s=69336 kN/s, n=3243888806, pv=gxf5 Rxf5 Rg8, tb=5214870, R50=50, wv=3.17, } 37.Rxf5 { d=29, pd=Rg8, mt=00:00:00, tl=00:38:11, s=7032 kN/s, n=21097, pv=Rxf5 Rg8 Rxf7 Qxf7, tb=0, R50=50, wv=3.74, } 37...Rg8 { d=32, pd=Kf1, mt=00:01:39, tl=00:40:22, s=77748 kN/s, n=7724402934, pv=Rg8 Kf1 Rg7 Qh5 Kd7 Qh8 Reg6 Qa8 Qe6 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Qc8 Rf6 Ne7 Qxb4 Nf5 Qa4+ Kf8 Kf2 Rxg5 Qb4+ Kg8 hxg5 Rxg5 Qc5 Qf8 Rb2 Qxc5 dxc5 Nd4 Rd2 Ne6 Rxd5 Rg4 c6 Rc4 Rd6 Kg7 Ke3 Rc2, tb=17478957, R50=50, wv=3.81, } 38.Kf1 { d=30, mt=00:01:21, tl=00:36:59, s=83563 kN/s, n=6837441204, pv=Kf1, tb=9189573, R50=50, wv=4.00, } 38...Rg7 { d=33, pd=Qh5, mt=00:02:15, tl=00:38:17, s=72323 kN/s, n=9803992775, pv=Rg7 Qh5 Kd7, tb=28759906, R50=49, wv=4.00, } 39.Qh5 { d=31, pd=Kd7, mt=00:01:27, tl=00:35:41, s=83242 kN/s, n=7309181556, pv=Qh5 Kd7 Qh8 Reg6 Qa8 Qe6 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Ne7 Rf6 Qd7 Qxb4 Nc6 Qc5 Nd8 Ke1 Qb7 Qa3 Qe7 Qa5 Qb7 Rc2 Ne6 Qa4+ Ke7 Qa3+ Kd7 Rb2 Qc7 Rbf2 Rxf6 exf6 Rxg5 hxg5 Qd6 Qa7+ Qc7 Qxc7+ Kxc7 g6 fxg6 f7 Nf8 a4, tb=8953011, R50=49, wv=4.02, } 39...Kd7 { d=30, pd=Qh8, mt=00:00:45, tl=00:37:42, s=76285 kN/s, n=3449823135, pv=Kd7 Qh8 Reg6, tb=4609389, R50=48, wv=3.80, } 40.Qh8 { d=29, mt=00:00:14, tl=00:35:36, s=87239 kN/s, n=1274477849, pv=Qh8, tb=1004202, R50=48, wv=4.07, } 40...Reg6 { d=33, pd=Qa8, mt=00:03:28, tl=00:34:23, s=76803 kN/s, n=16022082686, pv=Reg6 Qa8 Qe6 Qa7+ Ke8 Qb8+ Ke7 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Ne7 Rf6 Qd7 Ke1 Qc8 Qxb4 Qc1+ Kf2 Nc6 Qb7 Qc4 Qc8+ Nd8 Qxc4 dxc4 d5 c3 Ke3 Rxf6 exf6 Rg6 Kd3+ Kd7 Re7+ Kd6 Ne4+ Kxd5 Rd7+ Ke5 Rxd8 Rg2 a4 c2 Rc8 Rh2 Rc5+ Ke6 Rxc2 Rxh4 Kd4, tb=42444253, R50=47, wv=4.28, } 41.Qa8 { d=31, mt=00:00:51, tl=00:34:54, s=83708 kN/s, n=4351159224, pv=Qa8, tb=5347862, R50=47, wv=4.29, } 41...Qe6 { d=32, pd=Qb7+, mt=00:01:39, tl=00:32:54, s=81666 kN/s, n=8118847132, pv=Qe6 Qb7+ Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8 Qb7 Na5 Qa7 Nc6 Qxc5 Qc8 Rf6 Ne7 Qxb4 Qc1+ Kf2 Nc6 Qb7 Qc4 Qc8+ Nd8 Qxc4 dxc4 d5 c3 Ke3 Rxf6 exf6 Rg6 Kd3+ Kd7 Re7+ Kd6 Ne4+ Kxd5 Rd7+ Ke6 Rxd8 Rg2 a4 c2 Rc8 Rh2 Rxc2 Rxh4 Rc8 Kd7 Rc5 Rh3+ Kd4 Ra3 Ra5, tb=19133751, R50=46, wv=4.27, } 42.Qb7+ { d=32, mt=00:01:18, tl=00:33:46, s=84571 kN/s, n=6622913331, pv=Qb7+, tb=9629348, R50=46, wv=4.42, } 42...Ke8 { d=33, pd=Qb5+, mt=00:01:04, tl=00:31:59, s=76615 kN/s, n=4932488808, pv=Ke8 Qb5+ Qd7, tb=12618213, R50=45, wv=4.22, } 43.Qb5+ { d=32, mt=00:01:02, tl=00:32:53, s=84494 kN/s, n=5316796042, pv=Qb5+, tb=7652301, R50=45, wv=4.58, } 43...Qd7 { d=33, pd=Qb8+, mt=00:01:10, tl=00:30:58, s=75175 kN/s, n=5332028146, pv=Qd7 Qb8+ Qd8, tb=17261552, R50=44, wv=4.51, } 44.Qb8+ { d=30, mt=00:00:48, tl=00:32:14, s=84911 kN/s, n=4148518718, pv=Qb8+, tb=6462638, R50=44, wv=4.78, } 44...Qd8 { d=32, pd=Qb7, mt=00:00:43, tl=00:30:25, s=76138 kN/s, n=3289703634, pv=Qd8 Qb7 Na5, tb=6848517, R50=43, wv=4.58, } 45.Qb7 { d=31, mt=00:02:21, tl=00:30:03, s=83564 kN/s, n=11833169261, pv=Qb7, tb=25457570, R50=43, wv=4.63, } 1-0 [/pgn]
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
Leo
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:55 pm
Location: USA/Minnesota
Full name: Leo Anger

Re: TCEC 10

Post by Leo »

Stockfish draws Chiron 3 times. Houdini defeats Chiron 3 times. Interesting.
Advanced Micro Devices fan.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12536
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: TCEC 10

Post by Dann Corbit »

jhellis3 wrote:
No matter what format you choose or how many games you play two of the top three engines among Houdini, Stockfish, Komodo are going to advance and the format chosen will not change that.
Strawman.
As for a knockout tournament, you won't be able to reverse the books.
Um... yes you can. If you had actually bothered to read what I wrote before responding.... you might have noticed I said have each of the 2 engine pairs play a 10 opening match with 20 games total. Hmmm.... I wonder why that could possibly be. To repeat those 10 openings perhaps?
Need I say more?
Not if you are going to keep posting drivel like that.
If you say so. A knockout tournament is a truly horrible format for a championship.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
gotogo
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:03 am

Re: TCEC 10

Post by gotogo »

Still not fair and it isn't over! Without the 3rd competition with just the top 4 it makes this years tcec the worst of all! Booot never should have advanced! Tcec does what it wants and screw you for complaining! Ban you if you have a mind that differs from the narrative!
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12536
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: TCEC 10

Post by Dann Corbit »

gotogo wrote:Still not fair and it isn't over! Without the 3rd competition with just the top 4 it makes this years tcec the worst of all!
Perhaps that is why more than 1000 people have been watching the games live at one time. They enjoy being disappointed.
Booot never should have advanced! Tcec does what it wants and screw you for complaining! Ban you if you have a mind that differs from the narrative!
Booot advanced because it scored more according to the contest rules.
Of course, if you would like to see it done another way, (e.g. engines which score less advance) you are free to create your own contest and show them how it is done. I think it might be nearly as wildly popular as "The ARB method for lying about how to play chess!" Everyone's clamoring to see that, aren't they?

Generally speaking, you have to be a real whinging twit to get banned from TCEC. Actually, worse than that because I am a whinging twit and I have not managed to get banned in several years of kibitzing.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
jhellis3
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

Re: TCEC 10

Post by jhellis3 »

A knockout tournament is a truly horrible format for a championship.
Yeah, the NFL, NBA, NCAA, MLB, NHL, FIFA, Snooker, Martial Arts, Tennis, Cricket, Lacrosse, Rugby, etc.... have no idea what they are doing. Obviously.


Oh, let's not leave out e-sports... LoL, Dota, SC, Overwatch, Counterstrike, Hearthstone, HoTS, SSMB, etc... also have no idea what they are doing. Obviously.

But it gets better. The superfinal itself is just a 1 round knockout tournament. Clearly a terrible idea. The winner of the event should just be the winner of the RR. No super-final required. :roll:
Last edited by jhellis3 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:57 am, edited 2 times in total.