Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
personally i have no doubt that the "4 hours thing" is the truth...and even if its 4 days, thats no difference imo....the fact, that that "process" manages to get to such a ultra-high level of playingstrengh is nothing other than revolutionary and thats simply a scary, very scary, fact that we are faced with
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.
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Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."
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Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Why not actually cite a paper instead of your article, why the need for self-promotion?Albert Silver wrote:They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01815
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
I started following yesterday this development, I have no much time recently.Jouni wrote:Did this published paper give any estimate for perfect chess? One figure has 3500 limit or +100 from SF8. Are we near? Where is Kai, when we need him ?
About your question. First, to define perfect chess. Say, perfect chess in the sense of non-swindling or fooling around, 32-men tablebases.
I had a wide range of estimates, from 3700-4500 CCRL 40/40 rating points, and with the latest data of Andreas Strangmüller tipping to the lower bound, say 3800.
With this result, +28 =72 -0 (is it correct, or I missed some more results?), the tip is again towards a low bound in ELO. a +36 =56 -8 result would tip towards a higher ELO bound, although the ELO advantage of AlphaZero would have been the same over SF8.
It seems both these monsters play very often perfect moves, and sometimes maybe even perfect games. So, it seems the ELO bound cannot be very far away.
Last edited by Laskos on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Because I wanted to.Milos wrote:Why not actually cite a paper instead of your article, why the need for self-promotion?Albert Silver wrote:They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01815
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Alpha Zero won only 3 games with black.Laskos wrote:I started following yesterday this development, I have no much time recently.Jouni wrote:Did this published paper give any estimate for perfect chess? One figure has 3500 limit or +100 from SF8. Are we near? Where is Kai, when we need him ?
About your question. First, to define perfect chess. Say, perfect chess in the sense of non-swindling or fooling around, 32-men tablebases.
I had a wide range of estimates, from 3700-4500 CCRL 40/40 rating points, and with the latest data of Andreas Strangmüller tipping to the lower bound, say 3800.
Again, this result, +28 =72 -0 (is it correct, or I missed some more results?), the tip is again towards a low bound in ELO. a +36 =56 -8 result would tip towards a higher ELO bound, although the ELO advantage of AlphaZero would have been the same over SF8.
It seems both these monsters play very often perfect moves, and sometimes maybe even perfect games. So, it seems the ELO bound cannot be very far away.
Advanced Micro Devices fan.
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
In a way this is the end of chess.
In 25 years, the end of us as the leading mental entity in the earth.
Becoming a kitten regards
F
In 25 years, the end of us as the leading mental entity in the earth.
Becoming a kitten regards
F
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Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Thanks Albert! Well written article.
A minor comment is that there is a distinction b/n AlphaGo Zero, and AlphaZero but I guess you left this out deliberately to keep it simple.
Maybe Google had this chess results when they first published AlphaGo Zero anyway -- only been a few months b/n these two.
Daniel
A minor comment is that there is a distinction b/n AlphaGo Zero, and AlphaZero but I guess you left this out deliberately to keep it simple.
Maybe Google had this chess results when they first published AlphaGo Zero anyway -- only been a few months b/n these two.
Daniel
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Re: Much weaker than Stockfish
" just that outcalculates Stockfish consistently...."
Well, that is enough, pal.
Fern
Well, that is enough, pal.
Fern
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Agree.Lion wrote:While I understand why you would like to do that (so would I), I believe it will never happen.
This is surely not the original intend of the team that worked on AlphaZero.
They just proved that by letting an IA develop within a few hours it could get more than a match for a regular program on which several thousands of hours were spent....
Unfortunately, the proof is done and they will likely move to the next things. SF with opening book, this or that..... is most probably of little interest to them.
rgds
Advanced Micro Devices fan.