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Test Position 2
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Uri Blass



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 5958
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel
PostPost subject: Re: The Correct Solution?    Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:55 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Marc MP wrote:
Karol Majewski wrote:
JVMerlino wrote:
Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:

1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7


I will play 8...a5! and after 9.c4 Qa3!

draw!


Hi Karol,

I think you're right, and 8...a5! will draw! This more or less refutes the solution I had:

1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. Bxc4 bxc4 6. b4 * which is similar.

So I searched for an improvement and I think I found one!

1. Qxe5 fxe5 2. Rf1 Rc8 3. Bd1 Rc4 4. Bb3 b5 5. a4! a6 {seems forced} 6. Ba2!! Qe7 {lets try this} 7. b4! *

[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/1p2p3/PPr1P3/2P5/B6P/5RK1 b - b3 0 1
   ::    ::    :: BK BR
::    ::    BQ    :: BP
BP ::    :: WP :: BP WB
:: BP ::    BP    ::    
WP WP BR :: WP ::    ::
::    WP    ::    ::    
WB ::    ::    ::    WP
::    ::    :: WR WK    


Now white will capture the c4-rook with a winning Q-side pawn structure! Pushing the b-pawn will give an easy win!

Here is Toga 1.3 X4 analysis from the diagram (score relative to Toga - black here):

Code:
00:22:12.5   0,00   18   627003769   Qd8 Rf7 Qe8 Bxc4 bxc4 Rg7+ Kf8 Rc7+ Kg8 Rg7+
00:24:38.4   -5,58   19   706926332   Qd8 Bxc4 bxc4 b5 axb5 axb5 Qb8 e7 Qa7+ b6 Qxe7 b7 Qd8 Rf8+ Qxf8...
00:29:39.8   -2,95   19   868872523   Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rd7 Re8 e7 Kg7 b5 ...
00:35:20.8   -3,05   20   1046837979   Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 ...
00:42:52.4   -2,85   21   1296150453   Qa7+ Kg2 Qg7 Bxg7 Kxg7 Bxc4 bxc4 Rf7+ Kh6 Rc7 Kg5 e7 Kf6 b5 axb5 axb5 Ke6 b6 Kd6 Ra7 Rb8 Kf3 h6 Ke3 g5 Kf3 h5 Ke3


And CM9_R1 (score relative to white):

Code:
1:15   3/14   6.79   21533083   1...De8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.b5 axb5 4.axb5 Dd8 5.Rg2 Da8 6.Rg3 Da3...
3:19   3/14   2.37   54352033   1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5 ...
8:29   4/15   3.53   137867222   1...Dd8 2.Fxc4 bxc4 3.Rg2 g5 4.b5 axb5 5.axb5 Da8 6.Rg3 Dc8 7.Tf5...
22:22   4/15   3.10   351917628   1...Da7+ 2.Rg2 Dg7 3.Fxg7 Rxg7 4.Fxc4 bxc4 5.Tf7+ Rh6 6.e7 Te8...
29:23   4/15   2.83   455845961   1...Dg7 2.Fxg7 Rxg7 3.Fxc4 bxc4 4.Tf7+ Rh6 5.Rg2 Te8 6.e7 g5 7.Tf6+ Rg7 8.Txa6 Txe7 9.a5 Rf7 10.b5 Re8 11.Ta8+ Rd7


I don't think black can prevent this winning set-up for white. Any comments?


I think that in order to prove a solution we need to refute every possible line that is not losing based on the computer.

Based on glaurung depth 21
There are 6 possible moves that we need to refute(other options lead to mate)

New game
4q1kr/p6p/1pr1P1pB/4p3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/5RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Glaurung 1.2.1:

1. ³ (-0.51): 2...a6 3.Bxa6 Rc7 4.Bb5 Qe7 5.Kg2 Rc5 6.Ba4 b5 7.Bb3 Rc4 8.Bxc4 bxc4 9.b4 cxb3 10.Rf7 Qxf7 11.exf7+ Kxf7 12.axb3 Rd8 13.b4
2. = (-0.14): 2...Rc8 3.Bd1 Qxe6 4.Bb3 Qxb3 5.axb3 a5 6.Rf6 Rd8 7.Kf2 Re8 8.Ke3 Ra8 9.Kf3 Rc8 10.Rxb6 Kf7 11.Ra6 Rb8 12.Ra7+ Ke6 13.Ra6+ Kd7
3. = (-0.07): 2...Rc7 3.Bb5 Qe7 4.Ba4 Qc5+ 5.Kg2 Rg7 6.Bb3 Qe7 7.Kh3 g5 8.Bd5 a6 9.Bxg7 Kxg7 10.Rf7+ Qxf7 11.exf7 Rf8 12.Kg4 Kg6 13.a3 h5+ 14.Kf3
4. = (0.00): 2...Rc5 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 a6 6.Kg3 Qe7 7.Kg2 Qe8 8.Kg3
5. = (0.00): 2...Qd8 3.Bd1 Qe7 4.Bb3 Rc8 5.Kg2 Re8 6.Rf7 b5 7.h4 a5 8.Bg5 Qd6 9.e7 h6 10.Rf8+ Kg7 11.Rf7+ Kg8 12.Rf8+
6. = (0.00): 2...Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 a6 6.Kg3 Qe8 7.Kg2 Qe7 8.Kg3
7. +- (#13): 2...b5 3.Bxb5 Qe7 4.Bxc6 Qg5+ 5.Bxg5 h6 6.Bd5 hxg5 7.Rf7 Rh7 8.e7 Rxf7 9.e8Q+ Kg7 10.Qxf7+ Kh6 11.Qf8+ Kh5 12.Qh8+ Kg4 13.Kf2 Kf4 14.h3 g4 15.Qf6#

(Uri, MyTown 10.04.2007)
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Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
Test Position 2 Marc MP Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:31 pm
      Re: Test Position 2 Terry McCracken Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:04 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 Alessandro Scotti Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:29 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 John Merlino Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:33 am
            Re: Test Position 2 Robert Basham Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:38 pm
      Solution Marc MP Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:57 am
            Re: Solution Alex Brown Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:56 am
            Re: Solution Terry McCracken Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:49 am
                  Re: Solution Karol Majewski Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:44 am
                        Re: Solution John Merlino Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:40 pm
                              Re: Solution Ignacio Santos Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm
                                    Re: Solution John Merlino Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:47 pm
                              Re: Solution Karol Majewski Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:14 pm
                                    Re: The Correct Solution? Marc MP Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:08 am
                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:27 am
                                                Re: The Correct Solution? Marc MP Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:46 am
                                                      Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:00 am
                                                            Re: The Correct Solution? lewisg Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:56 pm
                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Uri Blass Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:55 pm
                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Karol Majewski Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:05 pm
                                                Re: The Correct Solution? Greg Simpson Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:14 pm
                                                      Re: The Correct Solution? Karol Majewski Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:04 pm
                                                Re: The Correct Solution? Robin Smith Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:19 pm
                                                      Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:18 pm
                                                            Re: The Correct Solution? Robin Smith Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:34 pm
                                                                  Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:36 am
                                                                  Re: The Correct Solution? lewisg Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:45 am
                                                                        Re: The Correct Solution? Pavel Háse Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:55 am
                                                                        Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:08 pm
                                                                              Re: The Correct Solution? lewisg Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:34 pm
                                                                                    Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:45 am
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Marc MP Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Terry McCracken Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:08 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Paulo Soares Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:14 am
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Marc MP Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:20 am
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Paulo Soares Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:02 am
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Julien MARCEL Wed May 02, 2012 12:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Gabriel LEPERLIER Wed May 02, 2012 2:39 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Gary Wed May 02, 2012 3:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Gabriel LEPERLIER Wed May 02, 2012 6:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Herbert L Wed May 02, 2012 8:08 pm
                                                                                          Re: The Correct Solution? Howard Exner Sun May 06, 2012 2:56 am
            Re: Solution Pavel Háse Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:03 am
                  Re: Solution Ignacio Santos Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:46 am
                        Re: Solution Pavel Háse Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:42 pm
      Re: Test Position 2 kgburcham Wed May 02, 2012 11:15 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 Gabriel LEPERLIER Thu May 03, 2012 10:52 am
                  Re: Test Position 2 Julien MARCEL Thu May 03, 2012 11:31 am
                        Re: Test Position 2 Gabriel LEPERLIER Thu May 03, 2012 12:01 pm
                              Re: Test Position 2 Gary Thu May 03, 2012 3:53 pm
                        Re: Test Position 2 Robert Houdart Thu May 03, 2012 9:58 pm
                              Re: Test Position 2 Gary Fri May 04, 2012 12:07 am
                                    Re: Test Position 2 Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 9:22 am
                                          Re: Test Position 2 Gary Sat May 05, 2012 9:16 pm
                              Re: Test Position 2 Vincent Lejeune Fri May 04, 2012 12:55 pm
                                    Re: Test Position 2 Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 5:06 pm
                                          Re: Test Position 2 Vincent Lejeune Sat May 05, 2012 7:54 pm
                              Re: Test Position 2 Marek Kwiatkowski Sat May 05, 2012 8:03 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 Louis Zulli Thu May 03, 2012 1:27 pm
      Re: Test Position 2 Jouni Uski Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 Matthew R. Brades Tue May 08, 2012 6:07 pm
            Re: Test Position 2 Robert Houdart Tue May 08, 2012 7:11 pm
                  Re: Test Position 2 Marek Kwiatkowski Thu May 10, 2012 8:08 pm
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