Another very hard position (for engines)

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Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Another very hard position (for engines)

Post by Vinvin »

White to play and win !
[d]rk1b4/p2p2p1/1P6/2R2P2/8/2K5/8/5B2 w - -

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nouvelle partie"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rk1b4/p2p2p1/1P6/2R2P2/8/2K5/8/5B2 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "29"]

1. Rc8+ Kxc8 2. Ba6+ Kb8 3. b7 Bf6+ 4. Kc4 Be7 5. Kd5 Bb4 6. Ke5 Be7 7. f6
gxf6+ 8. Kf5 Bd8 9. Kg6 d5 10. Kf7 d4 11. Ke8 d3 12. Kxd8 d2 13. bxa8=Q+ Kxa8
14. Kc8 d1=Q 15. Bb7# 1-0
Uri Blass
Posts: 10306
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Another very hard position (for engines)

Post by Uri Blass »

finding the right moves is easy
The main problem is to find the right move is really winning


New game
[D]rk1b4/p2p2p1/1P6/2R2P2/8/2K5/8/5B2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Movei00_8_438:

1.b6xa7+
³ (-0.29) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1.b6xa7+ Ra8xa7 2.Bf1-g2 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-d3
³ (-0.30) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6
³ (-0.29) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.08) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.08) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.08) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.08) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-c4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.16) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-c4 a7xb6 3.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 4.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8
= (-0.16) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Bf1-a6 a7xb6 2.Rc5-c8+ Kb8-a7 3.Rc8xa8+ Ka7xa8 4.Ba6-b5 Bd8-f6+ 5.Kc3-b4
³ (-0.28) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.b6-b7
³ (-0.27) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ d7-d5 3.Rc5xd5 Bd8-f6+ 4.Rd5-d4+ Kb7-b8
= (-0.12) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ d7-d5 3.Rc5xd5 Bd8-f6+ 4.Rd5-d4+ Kb7-b8
= (-0.12) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.b6-b7
= (0.18) Depth: 6 00:00:00 16kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8
² (0.28) Depth: 6 00:00:00 18kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8
² (0.28) Depth: 6 00:00:00 26kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8
² (0.28) Depth: 7 00:00:00 29kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8
² (0.28) Depth: 7 00:00:00 45kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 d7-d5+ 6.Bg2xd5 Kc7xb8
² (0.27) Depth: 8 00:00:01 53kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 d7-d5+ 6.Bg2xd5 Kc7xb8
² (0.27) Depth: 8 00:00:01 89kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8 6.Bg2-d5
= (0.04) Depth: 9 00:00:01 113kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8 6.Bg2-d5
= (0.04) Depth: 9 00:00:01 207kN
1.b6-b7
³ (-0.26) Depth: 10 00:00:01 274kN
1.b6-b7 Kb8xb7 2.Bf1-g2+ Kb7-b6 3.Kc3-c4 Ra8-b8 4.Rc5-b5+ Kb6-c7 5.Rb5xb8 Kc7xb8 6.Bg2-d5 Kb8-c7
³ (-0.27) Depth: 10 00:00:01 324kN
1.Rc5-c8+
³ (-0.26) Depth: 10 00:00:02 597kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6 5.Kc4-d5 Bf6-e5 6.Kd5-e4 Be5-c3 7.b7xa8Q+ Kb8xa8
= (-0.21) Depth: 10 00:00:02 622kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6 5.Kc4-d5 Bf6-e5 6.Kd5-e4 Be5-c3 7.b7xa8Q+ Kb8xa8
= (-0.21) Depth: 10 00:00:02 661kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-b6 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6
= (-0.14) Depth: 11 00:00:02 794kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-b6 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6
= (-0.14) Depth: 11 00:00:03 1220kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6 5.Kc4-d5 Bf6-e5 6.Kd5-c6 Be5-f4 7.Kc6-d5 Bf4-g3
= (-0.11) Depth: 12 00:00:03 1352kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 d7-d6 5.Kc4-d5 Bf6-e5 6.Kd5-c6 Be5-f4 7.Kc6-d5 Bf4-g3
= (-0.11) Depth: 12 00:00:04 2243kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 13 00:00:04 2579kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 13 00:00:08 4557kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 14 00:00:08 4967kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 14 00:00:13 8181kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 15 00:00:15 8938kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 15 00:00:25 14566kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-a3 6.Kd5-c4 d7-d6 7.Kc4-d5 Ba3-b4
= (-0.13) Depth: 16 00:00:27 15690kN

(so k, 15.09.2008)
Uri Blass
Posts: 10306
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Another very hard position (for engines)

Post by Uri Blass »

Rybka also finds Rc8+ but needs more time

New game
rk1b4/p2p2p1/1P6/2R2P2/8/2K5/8/5B2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit :

1.Rc5-d5
= (-0.05) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Rc5-d5
= (-0.11) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Rc5-d5
= (-0.14) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6
= (-0.15) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+
= (-0.14) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-b4 Kb8-c8
= (-0.18) Depth: 7 00:00:00 3kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-b4 Kb8-c8 4.Rd7-f7
= (-0.18) Depth: 8 00:00:00 6kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-b4 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-g2
= (-0.18) Depth: 9 00:00:00 15kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-b4 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-b5 Kb8-c8
= (-0.16) Depth: 10 00:00:00 25kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-b4 Kb8-c8 4.Rd7-f7 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-g2
= (-0.19) Depth: 11 00:00:01 41kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-c4 Kb8-c8 4.Rd7-f7 Ra8-a5 5.Bf1-g2 Ra5-c5+ 6.Kc4-b4
= (-0.20) Depth: 12 00:00:01 67kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-c4 Kb8-c8 4.Rd7-f7 Ra8-a5 5.Bf1-g2 Ra5-c5+ 6.Kc4-b4 Rc5-c2
= (-0.19) Depth: 13 00:00:02 107kN
1.Rc5-d5 a7xb6 2.Rd5xd7 Bd8-f6+ 3.Kc3-c4 Kb8-c8 4.Rd7-f7 Ra8-a5 5.Bf1-g2 Ra5-c5+ 6.Kc4-b4 Bf6-d4 7.Bg2-e4
= (-0.19) Depth: 14 00:00:04 180kN
1.Rc5-d5 Kb8-b7 2.Rd5-d6 Ra8-c8+ 3.Kc3-b3 Bd8xb6 4.Rd6-g6 Rc8-f8 5.Rg6xg7 Kb7-c6 6.Bf1-g2+ Kc6-d6 7.Bg2-h3 Rf8-e8
= (-0.22) Depth: 15 00:00:13 598kN
1.Rc5-d5 Kb8-b7 2.Rd5-d6 a7xb6 3.Rd6xd7+ Kb7-c8 4.Rd7-f7 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-g2 Bd8-f6+ 6.Kc3-c4
= (-0.19) Depth: 16 00:00:21 934kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-c4 a7xb6 3.Rd5xd7 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-g2 Ra5-c5+ 5.Kc4-b3 Rc5-c7 6.Rd7-d6 Kb8-a7 7.Rd6-c6 Rc7xc6 8.Bg2xc6 Ka7-a6 9.Kb3-b4 Bf6-e7+
= (-0.21) Depth: 17 00:00:39 1734kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 Kb8-b7 4.Bf1-a6+ Kb7-c6 5.b6-b7 Ra8-b8 6.Rd5-d3 d6-d5 7.Rd3-b3 Kc6-c7 8.Rb3-b5 Bf6-c3+ 9.Ka5-a4 Kc7-c6 10.Rb5-b3
= (-0.21) Depth: 18 00:00:57 2441kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 a7xb6+ 4.Ka5xb6 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-b5 Bf6-e5 6.Bb5-d7 Ra1-b1+ 7.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 8.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 9.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 10.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 11.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 12.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 13.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 14.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 15.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 16.Rb5-d5
= (-0.21) Depth: 19 00:01:24 3446kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 a7xb6+ 4.Ka5xb6 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-b5 Bf6-e5 6.Bb5-d7 Ra1-b1+ 7.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 8.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 9.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 10.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 11.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 12.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 13.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 14.Rb5-d5 Rc1-b1+ 15.Rd5-b5 Rb1-c1 16.Rb5-d5
= (-0.21) Depth: 20 00:01:55 4690kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 a7xb6+ 4.Ka5xb6 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-b5 Bf6-e5 6.Bb5-d7 Ra1-c1 7.Bd7-e6 Rc1-c3 8.Be6-d7 Be5-f4 9.Rd5-b5 Rc3-c1 10.Kb6-a6+ Kb8-c7 11.Rb5-b7+ Kc7-d8 12.Bd7-e6 Bf4-e5
= (-0.21) Depth: 21 00:03:24 7860kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 a7xb6+ 4.Ka5xb6 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-b5 Bf6-e5 6.Bb5-d7 Ra1-c1 7.Bd7-e6 Rc1-c3 8.Be6-d7 Be5-f4 9.Rd5-b5 Rc3-c1 10.Kb6-a6+ Kb8-c7 11.Rb5-b7+ Kc7-d8 12.Bd7-e6 Bf4-e5
= (-0.21) Depth: 22 00:04:57 11589kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b4 d7-d6 3.Kb4-a5 a7xb6+ 4.Ka5xb6 Ra8-a1 5.Bf1-b5 Bf6-e5 6.Bb5-d7 Ra1-c1 7.Bd7-e6 Rc1-c3 8.Be6-d7 Rc3-b3+ 9.Kb6-c6 Rb3-b7 10.Rd5-b5
= (-0.20) Depth: 23 00:10:26 23232kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b3 a7xb6 3.Rd5xd7 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-g2 Kb8-c8 5.Rd7-b7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 7.Kc4-b4 Rc5-c2 8.Bg2-f3 Rc2-c1 9.Bf3-e4 Rc1-b1+ 10.Kb4-c4
= (-0.23) Depth: 24 00:21:48 50163kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b3 a7xb6 3.Rd5xd7 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-g2 Kb8-c8 5.Rd7-b7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 7.Kc4-b4 Rc5-c2 8.Bg2-e4 Rc2-e2 9.Be4-h1 Re2-b2+ 10.Kb4-c4
= (-0.23) Depth: 25 00:30:48 72545kN
1.Rc5-d5 Bd8-f6+ 2.Kc3-b3 a7xb6 3.Rd5xd7 Ra8-a5 4.Bf1-g2 Kb8-c8 5.Rd7-b7 Ra5-b5+ 6.Kb3-c4 Rb5-c5+ 7.Kc4-b4 Rc5-c2 8.Bg2-e4 Bf6-e5 9.Kb4-b5 Rc2-e2 10.Be4-d3 Kc8xb7 11.Bd3xe2 Kb7-c7 12.Be2-d1 Be5-f6
= (-0.24) Depth: 26 00:46:54 110590kN
1.Rc5-c8+
= (-0.03) Depth: 26 00:59:56 152192kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-b4 6.Kd5-e5 Bb4-c5 7.Ke5-d5 Bc5-e7 8.Kd5-e5
= (0.00) Depth: 26 01:00:28 153677kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-b4 6.Kd5-e5 Bb4-c5 7.Ke5-d5 Bc5-e7 8.Kd5-e5
= (0.00) Depth: 27 01:01:40 157033kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-b4 6.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 7.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 8.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 9.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 10.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 11.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 12.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 13.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 14.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 15.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 16.Kd5-e5
= (0.00) Depth: 28 01:09:43 180870kN
1.Rc5-c8+ Kb8xc8 2.Bf1-a6+ Kc8-b8 3.b6-b7 Bd8-f6+ 4.Kc3-c4 Bf6-e7 5.Kc4-d5 Be7-b4 6.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 7.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 8.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 9.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 10.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 11.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 12.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 13.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 14.Kd5-e5 Bb4-e7 15.Ke5-d5 Be7-b4 16.Kd5-e5
= (0.00) Depth: 29 01:24:09 223644kN

(so k, 15.09.2008)
Uri Blass
Posts: 10306
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Another very hard position (for engines)

Post by Uri Blass »

I stopped rybka and gave it to analyze some plies later in the pv.

Here is the result so I suspect that rybka could see winning score wth more time that I did not give her.

New game, 120'/40+60'/20+60'/20
rk6/pP1pb1p1/B7/4KP2/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit :

7.f5-f6
= (0.20) Depth: 23 00:00:10 713kN
7.f5-f6
² (0.40) Depth: 23 00:00:16 1103kN
7.f5-f6
± (0.80) Depth: 23 00:00:22 1604kN
7.f5-f6
+- (1.60) Depth: 23 00:00:25 1710kN
7.f5-f6
+- (3.20) Depth: 23 00:00:28 1825kN

(so k, 15.09.2008)