On Robots

[Steve B]

Game two was also drawn
sadly i forgot to save the PGN file and i lost it


the game opened with 1.d4 d5 and with the 2Robot as white
this position was reached at move 60 with the Star Beryl to move:
[d]5r2/R7/8/8/7p/4KB1k/8/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]

although the 2Robot is up a B for P the position is clearly drawn with the SB intending to check the White King on the next move
i just didn't feel like playing this out for another 30 moves while the rooks shuffle and move across every rank and file so i adjudicated the game as DRAWN.
i imagine that someone with EGTB'S can show that this a dead draw as well

So Far Two Draws Regards
Steve

[fern]

So all this means that....you bought TWO Robots to have a computer that play the exact same kind fo game as the SB I gave to you when you was at he hospital.

There is maybe some kind of wisdom lurking here, But I do not get it yet regards
Fern

[Steve B]

So all this means that....you bought TWO Robots to have a computer that play the exact same kind fo game as the SB I gave to you when you was at he hospital.

There is maybe some kind of wisdom lurking here, But I do not get it yet regards
Fern

OK thats it
i can easily cheat and make believe the Robot is killing the Star Beryl and then i will not look so ridiculous having bought two to only obtain the same basic program
but i do not cheat
i will tell only the truth and show only the truth for the sake of Caissa the Goddess of Chess and for Justice

Now Editing all posts to show 2Robot winning regards
Steve

[Steve B]

the final game...
to make this last game go faster for me i disabled the Robotic Arm movement as after all we are trying to see which engine is stronger
perhaps the 2Robot plays differently with the Arm disabled ..perhaps not.
i tend to doubt it

The Star Beryl wins a grueling 82 move battle culminating with a pawn promotion and subsequent check mate



[Date "2008.11.30"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Star Beryl"]
[Black "Novag 2Robot"]
[Time Control "1 Minute Per Move?"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 exd4 6.Nxd4 g6 7.Be3 Bg7
8.Qd2 Nf6 9.Bxc6 Bxc6 10.Nxc6 bxc6 11.O-O O-O 12.Bg5 Rb8 13.Rad1 Re8 14.Qc1 Qd7 15.Rfe1 Qe6 16.b3 Nd7 17.Na4 Ne5 18.Bf4 Bf6 19.Qe3 a5 20.Qa7 Qg4 21.Bxe5 dxe5 22.Qxc7 Red8 23.Nc3 Qf4 24.Qxc6 Rdc8
25.Qd6 Rd8 26.Qc7 Bh4 27.g3 Qg5 28.Qxa5 Rbc8 29.Kf1 Rxd1 30.Rxd1
Qg4 31.Rd3 Bf6 32.f3 Qe6 33.Qa7 Bg7 34.Qf2 f5 35.Qd2 Bf8 36.Qe2 Bc5
37.Qd2 Qf6 38.Qe2 Qf7 39.Qd1 Bd4 40.Nb5 Qf6 41.exf5 Qxf5 42.Nxd4 exd4 43.Rxd4 Rxc2 44.Rd8+ Kf7 45.Rd7+ Ke8 46.Rd8+ Kf7 47.Rd7+ Kg8 48.Rd8+ Kg7 49.Qd4+ Kh6 50.Qh4+ Kg7 51.Qe7+ Kh6 52.Qh4+ Qh5 53.Qf4+ Qg5 54.a4 Rxh2 55.b4 Qxf4 56.gxf4 Kh5 57.Kg1 Rc2 58.Kf1 Rc4 59.Rf8 Rxb4 60.a5 h6 61.a6 Ra4 62.Rf6 Ra2 63.Ke1 g5 64.f5 Kh4 65.Rxh6+ Kg3 66.f6 Rxa6 67.f7 Ra1+ 68.Kd2 Ra2+ 69.Kc1
Ra8 70.Rg6 Rc8+ 71.Kd2 Rd8+ 72.Ke3 Rb8 73.Rg8 Rb3+ 74.Ke2 Rb2+
75.Kd1 Rb3 76.f8=Q Rb1+ 77.Ke2 Rb5 78.Qd6+ Kg2 79.Qd4 Rb2+ 80.Qxb2 Kh3 81.Kf2 Kh4 82.Qh8# 1-0


FINAL POSITION:
[d] 6RQ/8/8/6p1/7k/5P2/5K2/8 w - - 0 82[/fen]

Some final thoughts..
i think basically both computers have the same program and if i played 100 games the scores would be very close to 50-50
Utterly Exhausted Regards
Steve

[sje]

Our Sponsor's web site lists the 2Robot as being auto-sensory. But isn't the 2Robot press-sensory?

The same question goes for for the Excalibur Phantom Force.

[Steve B]

Our Sponsor's web site lists the 2Robot as being auto-sensory. But isn't the 2Robot press-sensory?

The same question goes for for the Excalibur Phantom Force.

you are correct
with both Robots the player must press the squares to signal the move
i guess the listing is referring to the fact that the Robot will move its own pieces but this is really a mistake as you point out
a true auto sensory would mean that the player only needs to move his pieces and not press down

the Novag Robot Adversary was a true auto sensory and the only Robot ever released for sale that was

Sensitive Issue Regards
Steve

[sje]

with both Robots the player must press the squares to signal the move
i guess the listing is referring to the fact that the Robot will move its own pieces but this is really a mistake as you point out
a true auto sensory would mean that the player only needs to move his pieces and not press down

I can see how leaving out auto-sensory in favor of press-sensory can save on cost. However, I'd say that most users of dedicated units that have had the auto-sensory experience don't want to return to press-sensory operation.

That being said, I'm seriously considering getting a DGT piece-sensory board next year if they produce a wireless version perhaps with a few other improvements. At that point I'll be spoiled again and won't want to use a regular auto-sensory unit.

[Steve B]

That being said, I'm seriously considering getting a DGT piece-sensory board next year if they produce a wireless version perhaps with a few other improvements. At that point I'll be spoiled again and won't want to use a regular auto-sensory unit.

Ah Yes ..The never ending quest for something new befalls all of us in the CC hobby
PC engine enthusiasts are always willing to update to the newest versions of the same Engines and also to upgrade their computers to get the strongest possible performance

Collectors of the dedicated computers have so little to choose from when it comes to something new they generally buy whatever comes out and then complain about it later

Anyway.. i am contemplating another match consisting of two rather odd computers
the 2Robot v the only dedicated chess computer to be powered by Solar Energy.. The Mephisto Solar King
both will play weakly but both are unusual in their own ways
i am thinking of calling this match the..

Clash Of The Mutants Regards
Steve

[sje]

Ah Yes ..The never ending quest for something new befalls all of us in the CC hobby
PC engine enthusiasts are always willing to update to the newest versions of the same Engines and also to upgrade their computers to get the strongest possible performance

Collectors of the dedicated computers have so little to choose from when it comes to something new they generally buy whatever comes out and then complain about it later

I still don't understand why any dedicated unit that costs over US$100 doesn't play at elo 2000 or better given that an elo 2000 capable H8/300 20 MHz CPU with 60 KB ROM and 3 KB RAM costs only US$10. And that same chip comes with at least one serial port (some varieties have more), adding the serial port wiring and connector can't cost more than a couple of dollars.

I can see using a relatively weak two dollar CPU and a 4 KB ROM program in a budget machine that sells for under US$30. But putting this into a US$250 unit is hard to justify even when a robotic arm is added.

----

I may purchase a DGT board even if they don't add wireless and some other improvements. Our Sponsor doesn't carry the board at the moment, but perhaps they will soon. (It can be had from the USCF Sales group for just over US$800 including shipping.) I suppose I could add the wireless myself and it will have to include a battery pack to power the radio and the board as well. A bigger problem as has been noted before is that the DGT board has no audio or visual output to indicate moves by whatever program is fedding data into its link.

[Steve B]

I still don't understand why any dedicated unit that costs over US$100 doesn't play at elo 2000 or better given that an elo 2000 capable H8/300 20 MHz CPU with 60 KB ROM and 3 KB RAM costs only US$10. And that same chip comes with at least one serial port (some varieties have more), adding the serial port wiring and connector can't cost more than a couple of dollars.

I can see using a relatively weak two dollar CPU and a 4 KB ROM program in a budget machine that sells for under US$30. But putting this into a US$250 unit is hard to justify even when a robotic arm is added.---

your guess is as good as mine but i think the reason might be the intended Market
most serious/strong chess player these days will be playing chess on their PC's ..where for $25 you can get Super GM strength
the market today for dedicated computers is the average every day consumer and i actually think the manufacturers do not want a strong playing computer
that is to say i think they limit the strength by design
the consumer likes to be able to beat the computer every so often and gets discouraged by losing to the computer on its lowest level
loss after loss and the computer winds up in a closet somewhere or on Ebay
sell a computer that can be beaten every now and again and the consumer stays interested and perhaps will buy another shinier model with more bells and whistles or buy another one and send it off as a gift during the Holiday season
most chess computers today sell for well under $200 and most around $100
the Robot sells for higher yes but the novelty of the arm will attract the day to day consumer so they can grab the higher price

i certainly would love to see stronger dedicated computers as these babies were playing at or near 2400 Elo when the market for dedicated's bottomed out due to the emergence of the PC Engine..and this was in 1994-1995
back then the market was not only the average consumer but also the serious or strong player

Market Analysis Regards
Steve