Vas taken to the Popular Court, again?

[fern]

I cannot believe that just another time a thread about the supposed larceny by Vas has begun. It is not only matter of how old the issue is, but also and more important, how much nasty and insubtansiated to date is.
Like the UFO case, where many say they exist and even say they saw one, but not even a photo is available and produced, still nobody has proved without doubt that Vas is involved in an act of theft, as he almost has been blamed he commited; nevertheless, the issue comes again...
If taking something from what the predecesors did is robbery, then every scientist and artist to date should be in jail.

Fern, amazed...

[Rolf]

I cannot believe that just another time a thread about the supposed larceny by Vas has begun. It is not only matter of how old the issue is, but also and more important, how much nasty and insubtansiated to date is.
Like the UFO case, where many say they exist and even say they saw one, but not even a photo is available and produced, still nobody has proved without doubt that Vas is involved in an act of theft, as he almost has been blamed he commited; nevertheless, the issue comes again...
If taking something from what the predecesors did is robbery, then every scientist and artist to date should be in jail.

Fern, amazed...

That George has asked again for some evidence that was promissed, is normal and required but that some replied here in the line you mention in astonishment as if - in case there is no clear case after many months - now the questioners are the guilty ones while the accusers somehow tried to take the backyard exit as if they prefered that nobody whould hold them accountable. Only Bob is repeating his former stand but also he has no case now.

I conclude that Bob has a special standing that allows him to speak out his opinions without having to be afread that this could backstrike on his existence while the young others who all had cried wolf over a long period managed by Theron, they all have lost their motivation or objectlively said they have found no further evidence. But instead of excusing their over-active doubting Vasik's moral and tech they seem to expect that they are treated with special respect.

I thank you Fern for making clear your astonishment so that I am not alone with George and Chris. What we have here is a scene of failure of highest extremes. And that sort of wrong cant be tolerated without apologies or other admissions. IMO.

BTW I would expect that computerchess experts of highest degree would be so smart as to evaluate in advance the potential legal aspects in case their smear campaign that it had become, after completely normal and tolerable first debates, wouldnt hold water. I am deeply disappointed by such reactions. Because some have written about the (legal) problems.

Basically I stand in protest in front of Bob who is repeating his already made pre-judgement without now having more evidence or a complete case. He did this intentionally and should think over the influence such pre-judging has on the moral development of younger members.

Although I could never even try to meet Bob on his own field I can count two and two together -> Bob has no case and was misleaden by the IMO clever claim of Vas that Strelka is "his" program. When Strelka was intended to become the grave stone for Vasik's babies.

Where on Earth a justice is practiced of being guilty on the base of formerly already made pre-judgings.

[Zach Wegner]

That George has asked again for some evidence that was promissed, is normal and required but that some replied here in the line you mention in astonishment as if - in case there is no clear case after many months - now the questioners are the guilty ones while the accusers somehow tried to take the backyard exit as if they prefered that nobody whould hold them accountable. Only Bob is repeating his former stand but also he has no case now.

I conclude that Bob has a special standing that allows him to speak out his opinions without having to be afread that this could backstrike on his existence while the young others who all had cried wolf over a long period managed by Theron, they all have lost their motivation or objectlively said they have found no further evidence. But instead of excusing their over-active doubting Vasik's moral and tech they seem to expect that they are treated with special respect.

On the contrary, I have been actively working on this. I never backed down, I have only kept quiet. This is because it creates a flamewar every time anyone says anything. Surprise surprise, it's happening again.

I have found far more than has been made public (or even what I have shared with some others), and the picture is 100% clear to my eyes. Even so, I do not know when I will be "finished". Also, I will likely not respond more about this for a while. But, this is not over.

[Rolf]

That George has asked again for some evidence that was promissed, is normal and required but that some replied here in the line you mention in astonishment as if - in case there is no clear case after many months - now the questioners are the guilty ones while the accusers somehow tried to take the backyard exit as if they prefered that nobody whould hold them accountable. Only Bob is repeating his former stand but also he has no case now.

I conclude that Bob has a special standing that allows him to speak out his opinions without having to be afread that this could backstrike on his existence while the young others who all had cried wolf over a long period managed by Theron, they all have lost their motivation or objectlively said they have found no further evidence. But instead of excusing their over-active doubting Vasik's moral and tech they seem to expect that they are treated with special respect.

On the contrary, I have been actively working on this. I never backed down, I have only kept quiet. This is because it creates a flamewar every time anyone says anything. Surprise surprise, it's happening again.

I have found far more than has been made public (or even what I have shared with some others), and the picture is 100% clear to my eyes. Even so, I do not know when I will be "finished". Also, I will likely not respond more about this for a while. But, this is not over.

This is good enough, but I reacted on Norman. If you say this I normally had to trust you although I have never read a little limitation note from your side but this isnt sound because Norman writes something else than Bob or you. Normally you had to write nothing but perhaps you could realise how much you all wrote against Vas. Why is this so?

[bob]

That George has asked again for some evidence that was promissed, is normal and required but that some replied here in the line you mention in astonishment as if - in case there is no clear case after many months - now the questioners are the guilty ones while the accusers somehow tried to take the backyard exit as if they prefered that nobody whould hold them accountable. Only Bob is repeating his former stand but also he has no case now.

I conclude that Bob has a special standing that allows him to speak out his opinions without having to be afread that this could backstrike on his existence while the young others who all had cried wolf over a long period managed by Theron, they all have lost their motivation or objectlively said they have found no further evidence. But instead of excusing their over-active doubting Vasik's moral and tech they seem to expect that they are treated with special respect.

On the contrary, I have been actively working on this. I never backed down, I have only kept quiet. This is because it creates a flamewar every time anyone says anything. Surprise surprise, it's happening again.

I have found far more than has been made public (or even what I have shared with some others), and the picture is 100% clear to my eyes. Even so, I do not know when I will be "finished". Also, I will likely not respond more about this for a while. But, this is not over.

This is good enough, but I reacted on Norman. If you say this I normally had to trust you although I have never read a little limitation note from your side but this isnt sound because Norman writes something else than Bob or you. Normally you had to write nothing but perhaps you could realise how much you all wrote against Vas. Why is this so?

What, exactly, have I written? I simply responded to a poor analogy you offered and tried to explain why it was wrong. What I saw when this investigation started was both troubling and surprising. What I have heard since is more troubling. But I am waiting and I didn't initiate the current thread, nor did Zach. It would seem that some like to keep the pot stirred, for whatever reasons they may have.

[Rolf]

What, exactly, have I written? I simply responded to a poor analogy you offered and tried to explain why it was wrong. What I saw when this investigation started was both troubling and surprising. What I have heard since is more troubling. But I am waiting and I didn't initiate the current thread, nor did Zach. It would seem that some like to keep the pot stirred, for whatever reasons they may have.

You know well what Chris THeron has written and still you buddied. That was prejudice but not judgement.

I didnt open the thread either but it was time that someone asked after your evidence or case.

Could you describe how the future plan is for the making of the case?

1) Do you just want to hold open the campaign to have something against Vas in the air?

2) With the next data for a full case will you alarm the institutions of justice? Advantage you could then stop communicating here because of the case...

3) Will you publish something just to show that you assumptions were justified?

4) What should be done with R2 or R3 when you have a "case" against R1betafreeversion?

5) What could we expect if Zach has meaningless data? Could you apologize?

[bob]

What, exactly, have I written? I simply responded to a poor analogy you offered and tried to explain why it was wrong. What I saw when this investigation started was both troubling and surprising. What I have heard since is more troubling. But I am waiting and I didn't initiate the current thread, nor did Zach. It would seem that some like to keep the pot stirred, for whatever reasons they may have.

You know well what Chris THeron has written and still you buddied. That was prejudice but not judgement.

I didnt open the thread either but it was time that someone asked after your evidence or case.

Could you describe how the future plan is for the making of the case?

1) Do you just want to hold open the campaign to have something against Vas in the air?

2) With the next data for a full case will you alarm the institutions of justice? Advantage you could then stop communicating here because of the case...

3) Will you publish something just to show that you assumptions were justified?

4) What should be done with R2 or R3 when you have a "case" against R1betafreeversion?

5) What could we expect if Zach has meaningless data? Could you apologize?

I'll only respond to the last question. I see nothing I should apologize for. I stated my opinion, that based on what I have seen to date, there is a _strong_ probability that R1 was copied, in major chunks if not the complete program, from Fruit, and then modified in some ways. If you want to hand-wave what has been shown away, that's your freedom of choice at work. But duplicate blocks of code simply does not happen by chance. Duplicate pc/sq table values do no happen by chance. Etc.

that's all there is to it, really. The fact that he probably copied something before he modified it to become something much better is interesting, but not a form of absolution for the original copying. That's been the point. If it were my investigation, I would not be interested in "judicial action". I would only want to discover the truth and expose it, and then move on. But it is not my investigation, I am on the outside looking in just as you are. I'm only interested in discovering the truth. I see nothing to be gained by legal action following.

[arturo5]

I can't believe you are still talking about Vas, Rybka, clones, things and stuff. You made a mess of the whole RGCC newsgroup because of your long, useless posts. You kept attacking people and Ed Schroeder even sued you at that time. Why don't you pack your stuff and leave us alone?

What, exactly, have I written? I simply responded to a poor analogy you offered and tried to explain why it was wrong. What I saw when this investigation started was both troubling and surprising. What I have heard since is more troubling. But I am waiting and I didn't initiate the current thread, nor did Zach. It would seem that some like to keep the pot stirred, for whatever reasons they may have.

You know well what Chris THeron has written and still you buddied. That was prejudice but not judgement.

I didnt open the thread either but it was time that someone asked after your evidence or case.

Could you describe how the future plan is for the making of the case?

1) Do you just want to hold open the campaign to have something against Vas in the air?

2) With the next data for a full case will you alarm the institutions of justice? Advantage you could then stop communicating here because of the case...

3) Will you publish something just to show that you assumptions were justified?

4) What should be done with R2 or R3 when you have a "case" against R1betafreeversion?

5) What could we expect if Zach has meaningless data? Could you apologize?

[mariaclara]

i guess this is the cooool way to go about it.

......................I would only want to discover the truth and expose it, and then move on.............
...... I'm only interested in discovering the truth.

[slobo]

What, exactly, have I written? I simply responded to a poor analogy you offered and tried to explain why it was wrong. What I saw when this investigation started was both troubling and surprising. What I have heard since is more troubling. But I am waiting and I didn't initiate the current thread, nor did Zach. It would seem that some like to keep the pot stirred, for whatever reasons they may have.

You know well what Chris THeron has written and still you buddied. That was prejudice but not judgement.

I didnt open the thread either but it was time that someone asked after your evidence or case.

Could you describe how the future plan is for the making of the case?

1) Do you just want to hold open the campaign to have something against Vas in the air?

2) With the next data for a full case will you alarm the institutions of justice? Advantage you could then stop communicating here because of the case...

3) Will you publish something just to show that you assumptions were justified?

4) What should be done with R2 or R3 when you have a "case" against R1betafreeversion?

5) What could we expect if Zach has meaningless data? Could you apologize?

I'll only respond to the last question. I see nothing I should apologize for. I stated my opinion, that based on what I have seen to date, there is a _strong_ probability that R1 was copied, in major chunks if not the complete program, from Fruit, and then modified in some ways. If you want to hand-wave what has been shown away, that's your freedom of choice at work. But duplicate blocks of code simply does not happen by chance. Duplicate pc/sq table values do no happen by chance. Etc.

that's all there is to it, really. The fact that he probably copied something before he modified it to become something much better is interesting, but not a form of absolution for the original copying. That's been the point. If it were my investigation, I would not be interested in "judicial action". I would only want to discover the truth and expose it, and then move on. But it is not my investigation, I am on the outside looking in just as you are. I'm only interested in discovering the truth. I see nothing to be gained by legal action following.

Very good. I like your answer very much.