The tragedy of Xmas for dedicated chess machines fans

[fern]

Nothing to buy. No new stuff. Only re-orchestrations of the old sames programs. The bastards change the plastic console, the housing, and then give them new names and without qualms throw to us engines produced in the 80's, with luck... We try hard to deceive ourselves, but to not avail. Machines announced as 2000 Elo and with the name "Einstein" scarcely could get a draw with the guy thats sell me the newspaper. Presumed robotic marvel plays no better than a patzer with one week of experience.
Nothing to buy.
Xmas seems to me a sad proposition to date....

In tears regards
Fern

[kgburcham]

Time to grow up Fern and get rid of the all the kiddie toys.
Be a man and buy a SkullTrail.
It is very dedicated to winning.

kgburcham

[mclane]

why don't you buy a Grandmaster from excalibur, replace the quarz from 12 to 24 and be happy that you were able to speed it up with factor 2 ?

the grandmaster has a tournament chess board.
and with 24 mhz it plays not that bad.



or what about taking your milano and trying to change it into the more active playing nigel short by replacing the eprom version ??


there are plenty of nice "projects" what you could try with the OLD dedicated units to get them a little "better".

e.g. you could tune the saitek admiral or travel champion 2100 from 12 to 24 mhz. all those tiny H8 cpu's can easily be tuned from 12 to 24 mhz.

a 24 mhz quarz costs 39 cent.

so tuning the old dedicated units is nothing expensive. all it needs is your own work, concentration while doing it.

suddenly you would change from a whining old man into a happy computerchess user.

maybe steve b. could help us to get a special edition of platinum Grandmasters with autograph of Ron Nelson. Kind of computerchess-anniversary edition with the masters handwritten signature:
from the inventors of the first dedicated chess computer, from the first dedicated chess programmer...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1119/859 ... 31.jpg?v=0

and ICD could sell those special editions here.
this would also be very good for economy in this economy crisis.
we could help stopping the crisis

[sje]

1) The Excalibur GM might already be running near or at the full rated speed of the processor.

2) All or nearly all dedicated units have timing loops that depend upon clock speed. Doubling the clock speed would change an SD time control of 30 minutes to 15 minutes. It would also mess up all timed signaling outputs like display scrolling, and it could affect input delay and debounce as well.

3) I believe that the H8 CPUs top out at 20 MHz. That's more than what's needed for kitchen appliances which is the primary target.

4) Doubling the speed on a 1750 elo machine like the Excalibur GM would produce an 1850 elo machine and that's still well below USCF Expert level.

[mclane]

1) The Excalibur GM might already be running near or at the full rated speed of the processor.

no. the machine runs much slower than it could run.
you can tune it with factor 2, this is very good result considering the
material of 39 cent you put into this "upgrade" .-)

2) All or nearly all dedicated units have timing loops that depend upon clock speed. Doubling the clock speed would change an SD time control of 30 minutes to 15 minutes. It would also mess up all timed signaling outputs like display scrolling, and it could affect input delay and debounce as well.

you can compensate this by using a level that is twice as long.
this way you get extra search depth.

also the GM and the Igor both have level 1, this is user adaptable.
there the unit controls all 6 moves the average amount of thinking and tries to compute in the same way.

so putting the machine in level 1 and let the opponent do a 40/120 time control, you get the similar time control in the overclocked Igor/Grandmaster machine.

3) I believe that the H8 CPUs top out at 20 MHz. That's more than what's needed for kitchen appliances which is the primary target.

it runs up to 24 mhz and in some dedicated units it is only running with 10 mhz or 12 mhz. by exchanging the quarz you can make it run at top speed.

4) Doubling the speed on a 1750 elo machine like the Excalibur GM would produce an 1850 elo machine and that's still well below USCF Expert level.

yes. but you can do this with other machines too.
e.g. if you would take a milano, that has 6502 CPU, and tune it to 10 mhz by using a faster 6502 CPU from WD, you can create a nice fast program/machine.

of course you can see in anything one can do a negative side.
but i prefer to see the things in a positive way. with 39 cent you can get factor 2 with the igor/GM. and it plays really better running at this speed.

[sje]

The last time I checked, the fastest H8 for sale ran at 20 MHz.

The faster H8 models cost more than the slower ones.

I doubt if Excalibur is throwing away money by using a more expensive part when a cheaper one will work.

Overclocking is always hazardous to some extent, and overclocking the fastest version of a given chip will have the highest probability of failure.

The H8, like other microcontroller chips and unlike high-end CPUs, has lots of nonlinear components onboard to handle I/O, A/D-D/A conversion, serial line conditioning, et cetera. These components are more likely to fail due to overclocking.

There is much sorcery involved in getting a CPU to run at 2-3 GHz. But sorcery costs money and that's why you wont see much of it in a US$5 chip.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic.

[Steve B]

actually i am a happy puppy for now
the New 2Robot is amazing to watch and seems to play with no glitches
true..the strength is low but at the end of a long tiring day at the office its nice to turn on the computer..set it to its "equal response time" level and then i can kick butt all over the board
so sue me if i end the day wondering if perhaps i am the next Tal when i win after a brilliant sacrificial attack
i know the thrill of victory (and big smile on my face )is not lessened one iota by its low playing strength

Delusion makes for a great nights sleep regards
Steve

[fern]

Pal:
I already have Grandmaster by Excalibur.....not too strong
Second, I have no idea how to change the speed of a processor.

My btes
Fern

[rightrook]

Hi Fern....I understand what you are saying....I have several old dedicated machines...(that do not get much use anymore)..but why not order Junior 10 or the new Hiarcs 11.2 engine? Works great...and no pieces to worry about moving around.....etc.

regards

Robert

[fern]

Robert, please, do not think I have not those things. I have every chess program to date, exception made of Rybka 3 and the deep versions of all of them.
Problem is there is NO program capable of playing at a reacheable level for me, as dedicated units can.
The crippled or friendly levels of every engine are a sham. They play absolutely absurd moves such as giving a piece and then they plays as a GM for 5 moves in a row.
That is NOT a 2000 or 1900 player. You never feel you are playing just an expert level player, but twoplayers, the moron and the genius, side by side.

My best
Fern