The Moron and the Genius, Side by Side

[Steve B]

To test your point i set up a game between the newly released Novag 2Robot(rated about 1400-1500 Elo) against the ChessMaster 9000 "Turk" personality
CM9K rates the Turk at 1815 USCF which is about 1675 Elo
here is what the CM9K has to say about the Turk:

A native New Yorker, Turk was raised on the mean streets and learned to play chess at a local boy`s club. Thus saved from a life of crime, Turk is nonetheless a street hustler, occasionally selling discount wares, but mostly eking out a living by challenging all comers to speed chess matches, $5.00 a game, in Washington Square.


As the 2Robot does not ponder i disabled pondering on the Turk
TC was 1 minute per move..2Robot was White



[White "Novag 2Robot"]
[Black "CM9K The Turk "]
[Time Control "1 min. Per Move"]

the game started ...

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.e3 c6 6.Nf3 h6 7.Bxf6 Nxf6 8.cxd5

[d] r1bqkb1r/pp3pp1/2p1pn1p/3P4/3P4/2N1PN2/PP3PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 0 8
in this position ..the Turk instead of recapturing the d pawn anyone of three different ways..instead plays..
Bb4?? thereby tossing a pawn away for nothing..

play continued ..

9.dxe6 Bxe6 10.Be2 Nd5 11.Qc2 Qa5 12.O-O Nxc3 13.bxc3 Bxc3 14.Rac1
Bb4 15.Rb1 Rc8 16.Rfd1 Rc7 17.Ne5 Bd6
18.Nc4 Bxc4 19.Bxc4
[d]4k2r/ppr2pp1/2pb3p/q7/2BP4/4P3/P1Q2PPP/1R1R2K1 b k - 0 19
here instead of playing 19..0-0 Mr.Turk plays the howler
19..Kf8??

thereby losing the right to Castle

i did not finish out the game as Ferns point has been well demonstrated and i had seen enough..
no 1800 USCF rated player would forget how to Castle

this is not chess..but rather.. a dummed down version of the Engine programmed to toss pawns every now and again,give up Castling and only God knows what else

now i have spent some time at the chess tables in Greenwich Village over the years
the regular players there are brutal cold-hearted Chess Hustlers
if the Turk would show up there ..playing like this ..he would soon find himself at the back of the looong line asking for a ..
US Govt. Bailout Regards
Steve

[meschle]

To test your point i set up a game between the newly released Novag 2Robot(rated about 1400-1500 Elo) against the ChessMaster 9000 "Turk" personality
CM9K rates the Turk at 1815 USCF which is about 1675 Elo
here is what the CM9K has to say about the Turk:

A native New Yorker, Turk was raised on the mean streets and learned to play chess at a local boy`s club. Thus saved from a life of crime, Turk is nonetheless a street hustler, occasionally selling discount wares, but mostly eking out a living by challenging all comers to speed chess matches, $5.00 a game, in Washington Square.


As the 2Robot does not ponder i disabled pondering on the Turk
TC was 1 minute per move..2Robot was White



[White "Novag 2Robot"]
[Black "CM9K The Turk "]
[Time Control "1 min. Per Move"]

the game started ...

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.e3 c6 6.Nf3 h6 7.Bxf6 Nxf6 8.cxd5

[d] r1bqkb1r/pp3pp1/2p1pn1p/3P4/3P4/2N1PN2/PP3PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 0 8
in this position ..the Turk instead of recapturing the d pawn anyone of three different ways..instead plays..
Bb4?? thereby tossing a pawn away for nothing..

play continued ..

9.dxe6 Bxe6 10.Be2 Nd5 11.Qc2 Qa5 12.O-O Nxc3 13.bxc3 Bxc3 14.Rac1
Bb4 15.Rb1 Rc8 16.Rfd1 Rc7 17.Ne5 Bd6
18.Nc4 Bxc4 19.Bxc4
[d]4k2r/ppr2pp1/2pb3p/q7/2BP4/4P3/P1Q2PPP/1R1R2K1 b k - 0 19
here instead of playing 19..0-0 Mr.Turk plays the howler
19..Kf8??

thereby losing the right to Castle

i did not finish out the game as Ferns point has been well demonstrated and i had seen enough..
no 1800 USCF rated player would forget how to Castle

this is not chess..but rather.. a dummed down version of the Engine programmed to toss pawns every now and again,give up Castling and only God knows what else

now i have spent some time at the chess tables in Greenwich Village over the years
the regular players there are brutal cold-hearted Chess Hustlers
if the Turk would show up there ..playing like this ..he would soon find himself at the back of the looong line asking for a ..
US Govt. Bailout Regards
Steve

Exactly steve - i have played cm personalities and found it all a bit of a joke - fairly reliable though seems to be the josh personalities - can you test that against 2Robot - i would be interested.
Instead i play weaker winboard engines in cm - much more playable i find

[Steve B]

Exactly steve - i have played cm personalities and found it all a bit of a joke - fairly reliable though seems to be the josh personalities - can you test that against 2Robot - i would be interested.

Sure Mark
i chose Josh age 9 because the program rates it at 1800 USCF which would make it a good match up for the Robot

Here is what the the program says about Young Josh..
At age 9 Josh was very sharp tactically and got stronger as the game moved along. His opening knowledge still lagged behind but he would later explain that this was very good for his future growth as a player. Studying the openings is just memorizing moves, hoping for traps, but studying the endgame is learning about chess.

same match conditions as against the Turk..
1 Min per Move
Pondering OFF(as the Robot does not ponder)
Josh took White..

[White "Josh - Age 9"]
[Black "2Robot"]
[Time Control "1 Min.Per Move"]


1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8 4.Bb5+

[d] rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/1B6/8/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQK1NR b KQkq - 0 4

well we can see that the engine leaves book early at move 4 with this useless check .. so i guess that shows the lagging behind of book knowledge mentioned

4.. c6 5.Be2 Nf6 6.Nf3 e6 7.a3 Be7 8.d4 Nbd7 9.Bd2 Nb6 10.Bd3 O-O 11.Qe2 Nfd5 12.Qe4 f5 13.Qe2 Nxc3 14.bxc3 Qd5 15.c4 Qd7 16.O-O Rd8 17.Ba5 Bf6 18.c3 c5 19.Bxb6 axb6 20.Rfd1 cxd4 21.cxd4 Qe7 22.Qb2 Bd7 23.Qb4 Qxb4 24.axb4 Rxa1 25.Rxa1 Bc6 26.Be2 Bxf3 27.Bxf3 Rxd4 28.Rc1 Kf7 29.Bh5+ Ke7 30.h3 g6 31.Bf3 Rd2
32.Bxb7 Bd4 33.Rf1 h5 34.Bf3 h4 35.Ba8 g5 36.Bf3 e5 37.Bh5 e4 38.Bg6 Kf6 39.Be8 Rc2 40.Bb5 Ke5 41.c5 bxc5 42.bxc5 Bxc5 43.Bd7 f4 44.Bg4 Ra2 45.Bh5 Rc2

FINAL POSITION
[D] 8/8/8/2b1k1pB/4pp1p/7P/2r2PP1/5RK1 w - - 0 46

I stopped the game here
the Robot is up a pawn with Bishops of opposite color
this is probably a win for Black but both the Robot and Young Josh plan on shuffling Rooks and Bishops at this point and i doubt the Robot could win from here..

overall .. while i saw no flashes of brilliant tactical play on Josh's part(as mentioned in his description) i do admit though that the play seemed more natural ..with none of the obvious dropping of material and hilarious refusing to Castle as demonstrated by the older and certainly not wiser..Turk

Interestingly.. Josh used to also play at the chess tables in Washington Square Park ...

I'm betting he ate the Turks Lunch Regards
Steve

[meschle]

Exactly steve - i have played cm personalities and found it all a bit of a joke - fairly reliable though seems to be the josh personalities - can you test that against 2Robot - i would be interested.

Sure Mark
i chose Josh age 9 because the program rates it at 1800 USCF which would make it a good match up for the Robot

Here is what the the program says about Young Josh..
At age 9 Josh was very sharp tactically and got stronger as the game moved along. His opening knowledge still lagged behind but he would later explain that this was very good for his future growth as a player. Studying the openings is just memorizing moves, hoping for traps, but studying the endgame is learning about chess.

same match conditions as against the Turk..
1 Min per Move
Pondering OFF(as the Robot does not ponder)
Josh took White..

[White "Josh - Age 9"]
[Black "2Robot"]
[Time Control "1 Min.Per Move"]


1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8 4.Bb5+

[d] rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/1B6/8/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQK1NR b KQkq - 0 4

well we can see that the engine leaves book early at move 4 with this useless check .. so i guess that shows the lagging behind of book knowledge mentioned

4.. c6 5.Be2 Nf6 6.Nf3 e6 7.a3 Be7 8.d4 Nbd7 9.Bd2 Nb6 10.Bd3 O-O 11.Qe2 Nfd5 12.Qe4 f5 13.Qe2 Nxc3 14.bxc3 Qd5 15.c4 Qd7 16.O-O Rd8 17.Ba5 Bf6 18.c3 c5 19.Bxb6 axb6 20.Rfd1 cxd4 21.cxd4 Qe7 22.Qb2 Bd7 23.Qb4 Qxb4 24.axb4 Rxa1 25.Rxa1 Bc6 26.Be2 Bxf3 27.Bxf3 Rxd4 28.Rc1 Kf7 29.Bh5+ Ke7 30.h3 g6 31.Bf3 Rd2
32.Bxb7 Bd4 33.Rf1 h5 34.Bf3 h4 35.Ba8 g5 36.Bf3 e5 37.Bh5 e4 38.Bg6 Kf6 39.Be8 Rc2 40.Bb5 Ke5 41.c5 bxc5 42.bxc5 Bxc5 43.Bd7 f4 44.Bg4 Ra2 45.Bh5 Rc2

FINAL POSITION
[D] 8/8/8/2b1k1pB/4pp1p/7P/2r2PP1/5RK1 w - - 0 46

I stopped the game here
the Robot is up a pawn with Bishops of opposite color
this is probably a win for Black but both the Robot and Young Josh plan on shuffling Rooks and Bishops at this point and i doubt the Robot could win from here..

overall .. while i saw no flashes of brilliant tactical play on Josh's part(as mentioned in his description) i do admit though that the play seemed more natural ..with none of the obvious dropping of material and hilarious refusing to Castle as demonstrated by the older and certainly not wiser..Turk

Interestingly.. Josh used to also play at the chess tables in Washington Square Park ...

I'm betting he ate the Turks Lunch Regards
Steve

Thanks steve - as i thought a more natural game.

I think 2robot is stronger than you think elo 1600-1700 i reckon

if you like play it against some 1600-1700 engines

this is from my own rating list

11 Minimax : 1701 84 82 64 60.9 % 1624 12.5 %
12 IQ23 : 1687 79 78 71 63.4 % 1592 14.1 %
13 Pooky27 : 1678 77 75 74 61.5 % 1597 14.9 %
14 Philemon : 1663 78 76 73 59.6 % 1596 12.3 %
15 DimitriWBE 2 : 1610 80 79 72 52.8 % 1591 5.6 %
16 Piranha : 1601 77 77 75 49.3 % 1606 8.0 %


Piranha at about 1600 i reckon is fairly reliable rating

quote - I'm betting he ate the Turks Lunch

its all good fun