Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

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Alessandro Damiani
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by Alessandro Damiani »

From a German computer chess book (R. Knaak and others):

[D]rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp2/2NBB3/PPQ1N1PP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 1

Best move: e5 with follow-up e6 immobilising black's queen side.

I wonder if this can be solved with todays engines and hardware. Have fun!
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12542
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by Dann Corbit »

Alessandro Damiani wrote:From a German computer chess book (R. Knaak and others):

[D]rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp2/2NBB3/PPQ1N1PP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 1

Best move: e5 with follow-up e6 immobilising black's queen side.

I wonder if this can be solved with todays engines and hardware. Have fun!
Rybka 3 is too reluctant to give up the bishop even after 1/2 hour:
Analysis from Q:\epd\sub\e5.epd
12/29/2008 2:51:56 PM Level: 3000 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Rybka 3

1) e5; c0 "follow-up wi
Searching move: e4-e5, e4-e6
Best move (Rybka 3): Be3-f2
Not found in: 50:00
persistent hash is enabled
persistent hash size set to 64 mb
2 00:17 759 4.950 +0.98 Be3f2
3 00:17 983 6.411 +0.96 Be3f2
4 00:17 1.600 10.435 +1.04 Be3f2
5 00:17 2.577 15.342 +0.85 Be3f2 Nb8d7
6 00:17 11.672 50.860 +0.95 Be3f2 Nb8d7 Rh1g1 Nd7e5
7 00:17 13.764 56.377 +0.95 Be3f2 Nb8d7 Rh1g1 Nd7e5
8 00:17 26.495 82.716 +0.89 Be3f2 Nb8d7 Rh1g1 Nd7e5 OOO
9 00:17 46.468 105.040 +0.73 Be3f2 Nb8d7 Rh1g1 Nd7e5 OOO Ne5g4 Rg1f1 Qd8g5
10 00:17 91.994 137.120 +0.72 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Qg5xg2 Ne2c1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg2f3 Nc3b5
11 00:18 220.544 162.589 +0.71 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5f6 Ne2c1 Qf6g6 Rg1f1
12 00:19 472.073 171.176 +0.71 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5f6 Ne2c1 Qf6g6 Rg1f1
13 00:22 958.948 183.510 +0.56 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5e7 h2h4 Bc8d7 Bf2e1 Ra8e8
14 00:25 1.601.092 184.692 +0.63 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5e7 Rg1f1 f4f3 g2xf3 Bc8h3 Rf1d1 Rf8xf3 Bf2e1 Ra8f8 Rh1g1 Bh3g4 Nc3b5
15 00:32 2.782.278 188.081 +0.63 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5e7 Rg1f1 f4f3 g2xf3 Bc8h3 Rf1d1 Rf8xf3 Bf2e1 Ra8f8 Rh1g1 Bh3g4 Nc3b5 a7a6
16 00:41 4.512.007 188.521 +0.63 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5e7 Rg1f1 f4f3 g2xf3 Bc8h3 Rf1d1 Rf8xf3 Bf2e1 Ra8f8 Rh1g1 Bh3g4 Nc3b5 a7a6
17 01:23 13.081.411 200.670 +0.63 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 Rd1g1 Qg5e7 Rg1f1 f4f3 g2xf3 Bc8h3 Rf1d1 Rf8xf3 Bf2e1 Ra8f8 Rh1g1 Bh3g4 Nc3b5 a7a6
18 03:06 34.739.065 209.566 +0.45 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 g2g3 f4f3 Ne2f4 Nh5xf4 Bf2e3 Ne5g6 g3xf4 Ng6xf4 Rh1g1 Qg5h5 Nc3b5 Nf4g2 Be3f2 Bg7e5 h2h4 Qh5h6 Nb5c3 Bc8d7
19 04:53 57.305.464 212.541 +0.45 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 g2g3 f4f3 Ne2f4 Nh5xf4 Bf2e3 Ne5g6 g3xf4 Ng6xf4 Rh1g1 Qg5h5 Nc3b5 Nf4g2 Be3f2 Bg7e5 h2h4 Qh5h6 Nb5c3 Bc8d7
20 09:10 111.190.572 213.378 +0.45 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 g2g3 f4f3 Ne2f4 Nh5xf4 Bf2e3 Ne5g6 g3xf4 Ng6xf4 Rh1g1 Qg5h5 Nc3b5 Nf4g2 Be3f2 Bg7e5 h2h4 Qh5h6 Bd3f1 Bc8h3 Nb5c7 Ra8c
8
21 29:07 379.427.644 224.532 +0.36 Be3f2 Nb8d7 OOO Qd8g5 Kc1b1 Nd7e5 g2g3 f4f3 Ne2f4 Nh5xf4 Bf2e3 Ne5g6 g3xf4 Ng6xf4 Rh1g1 Qg5h5
12/29/2008 3:24:11 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:32:01, Rated time: 50:00
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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by beachknight »

41: rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp - Deep Fritz 11
rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp2/2NBB3/PPQ1N1PP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 11:

1.Bd2 Qh4+ 2.Kd1 Ng3 3.Re1 Nxe2 4.Bxe2 Qxh2 5.Qb3 Qxg2 6.Kc2 Bd4
+/= (0.47) Depth: 11/25 00:00:00 234kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/- (0.79) Depth: 11/26 00:00:00 327kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/- (0.79) Depth: 12/26 00:00:00 454kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/= (0.63) Depth: 13/20 00:00:00 455kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/= (0.68) Depth: 14/28 00:00:00 787kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/= (0.63) Depth: 15/23 00:00:00 788kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.Bxg3 Nxg3 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.e5 h6 6.exd6 Ne5 7.Rf1 Nf3+ 8.Kd1 Bg4 9.Qc1 Qe5 10.Kc2
+/= (0.63) Depth: 16/23 00:00:00 789kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.Rgf1 Bd7 6.e5 Nxe5 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.Nb5 Bxb5
+/- (1.02) Depth: 17/41 00:00:09 67538kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.Rgf1 Bd7 6.e5 Nxe5 7.Ne4 Qg6 8.Nxc5 Nxd3
+/- (1.00) Depth: 18/39 00:00:15 108mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.Rgf1 Bd7 6.e5 Nxe5 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.Be4 Nxc4 9.Qb3 Na5
+/- (0.88) Depth: 19/46 00:00:24 164mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.Rgf1 Bd7 6.e5 Nxe5 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.Nb5 Bxb5 9.cxb5 Qxg2
+/- (0.88) Depth: 20/42 00:00:45 313mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Nf6 5.h3 Re8 6.h4 Qg4 7.Rgf1 Bd7 8.Qd2 Nh5 9.Rg1
+/- (0.87) Depth: 21/42 00:01:29 626mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Qe7 5.Be1 a6 6.Na4 Ng4 7.Qb3 Ne3 8.Rc1
+/- (0.79) Depth: 22/46 00:02:45 1163mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Qe7 5.h3 Bd7 6.g4 fxg3 7.Bxg3 Nxg3 8.Rxg3 Rf7 9.Qb3 b6
+/- (0.86) Depth: 23/46 00:06:15 2659mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Qe7 5.Rgf1 Bd7 6.Ng1 Nxd3 7.Rxd3 Bxc3 8.Rxc3 Rae8 9.Re1
+/= (0.70) Depth: 24/48 00:11:43 5030mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.h4 Qe7 6.Rdf1 Bd7 7.Qb3 f3 8.gxf3 Rxf3 9.Qxb7 Re8
+/= (0.51) Depth: 25/49 00:24:15 10442mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Ng4 5.h4 Qe7 6.Rdf1 Bd7 7.Qb3 f3 8.gxf3 Rxf3 9.Qxb7 Re8
+/= (0.48) Depth: 26/50 00:50:52 22055mN

(, chessengines20 30.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by beachknight »

41: rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp - Deep Fritz 11
rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp2/2NBB3/PPQ1N1PP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4:

1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Nb5 Ne5 3.0-0-0 Bg4
+/- (1.20) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 13kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0 f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.e5
+/- (1.05) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 17kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Rg1 Ne5 3.0-0-0 Ng4 4.Rgf1 Nxf2
+/- (0.95) Depth: 8/21 00:00:00 32kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Rg1 Ne5 3.0-0-0 Ng4 4.Rgf1 Nxf2 5.Rxf2
+/= (0.48) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 151kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.g4 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qg5 4.e5 Nxe5 5.Bxh7+ Kh8
+/= (0.65) Depth: 10/31 00:00:00 336kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rhg1 Qh3 6.Nb5
+/= (0.54) Depth: 11/41 00:00:00 1994kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rhg1 Qh3 6.Nb5 Bg4
+/= (0.54) Depth: 12/31 00:00:00 2101kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rhg1 Qh3 6.Nb5 Rd8 7.Nc7
+/= (0.52) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 2494kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rhg1 Qh3 6.Nb5 Rd8 7.Nc7 Rb8
+/= (0.46) Depth: 14/33 00:00:01 4035kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rdg1 Qf3 6.Bh4 Nf6 7.Nb5 Qh5 8.Bg5
+/= (0.40) Depth: 15/35 00:00:02 6022kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Qxg2 4.Nc1 Ne5 5.Rhg1 Qh3 6.Nb5 Rd8 7.Nc7 Bg4 8.Be2 Bxe2
+/= (0.47) Depth: 16/43 00:00:05 13447kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Ng1 Qg5 3.Bf1 Qh6 4.Nf3 Ng3 5.Rg1 Nxf1 6.Rxf1 Ne5 7.Qe2 Ng4 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.Rfe1
+/= (0.46) Depth: 17/48 00:00:22 34451kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rdg1 Qe7 5.Nc1 f3 6.Be3 a6 7.h4 Nf4 8.gxf3 Nxf3 9.Rg3 Nd4
+/= (0.42) Depth: 18/44 00:01:57 79647kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 6.Nb5 Qf6 7.Be1 Nf4 8.Bc3 Bh3 9.Rhg1 a6 10.Nc7
+/= (0.37) Depth: 19/53 00:01:57 166mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 6.Nb5 Qf6 7.Be1 Nf4 8.Bc3 Bh3 9.Rhg1 a6 10.Nc7 Rc8
+/= (0.33) Depth: 20/54 00:01:57 271mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 6.Nb5 Qf6 7.Be1 Nf4 8.Bc3 Bh3 9.Rhg1 a6 10.Nc7 Rc8 11.Ne6
+/= (0.33) Depth: 21/52 00:02:07 436mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 6.Nb5 Qf6 7.Be1 Nf4 8.Bc3 Bh3 9.Rhg1 a6 10.Nc7 Rc8 11.Ne6 Bxe6
+/= (0.33) Depth: 22/53 00:04:06 804mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 6.Rhg1 Bg4 7.Be1 Nf4 8.Bd2 Qh4 9.Bxf4 Rxf4 10.Be2 Raf8 11.Nb5 Nf3 12.Rg2
+/= (0.30) Depth: 23/61 00:13:18 2215mN

(, chessengines20 30.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by beachknight »

41: rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp - Deep Fritz 11
rnbq1rk1/pp4bp/3p4/2pP3n/2P1Pp2/2NBB3/PPQ1N1PP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Shredder 11 x64:

1.Bd2 Qh4+ 2.Kd1 Ng3 3.Nxg3 fxg3 4.Nb5 Rf2 5.Nxd6
+/- (0.82) Depth: 6/25 00:00:00 72kN
1.Bg1 f3 2.gxf3 Qg5 3.e5 Qxe5 4.Bxh7+ Kh8
+/- (0.93) Depth: 6/25 00:00:00 107kN
1.Bg1 f3
+/= (0.69) Depth: 7/25 00:00:00 203kN
1.Bd2 Qh4+ 2.Kd1
+/- (1.05) Depth: 7/29 00:00:00 343kN
1.Bd2 Qh4+ 2.Kd1 Ng3 3.Nxg3 fxg3 4.Be1 Bg4+ 5.Be2 Be5 6.Bxg4 Qxg4+ 7.Kc1 Bf4+
+/- (1.04) Depth: 8/21 00:00:00 441kN
1.Bf2 f3 2.gxf3 Rxf3 3.e5 Kh8 4.Bxh7
+/- (1.26) Depth: 8/21 00:00:00 550kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Be1 f3+ 4.Bd2 Qxg2 5.Rdg1 Qh3 6.e5 fxe2 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.exd6
+/- (1.13) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 1017kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Be1 f3+ 4.Bd2 Qxg2 5.Rdg1 Qh3 6.e5 fxe2 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.exd6
+/- (1.13) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 1221kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Be1 f3+ 4.Bd2 Qxg2 5.Rdg1 Qh3 6.e5 fxe2 7.Bxh7+ Kh8 8.exd6
+/- (1.13) Depth: 11/27 00:00:00 1745kN
1.Bf2 Nd7
+/- (0.89) Depth: 12/30 00:00:02 4653kN
1.Bf2 Nd7
+/- (1.13) Depth: 13/32 00:00:04 10322kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 Bg4 5.Rdf1 Kh8 6.Rhg1 a6 7.h3 Nxd3 8.hxg4 Nxf2 9.gxh5 Ng4
+/- (1.08) Depth: 14/34 00:00:06 14320kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 Bg4 5.Rdf1 Kh8 6.Qd2
+/- (1.06) Depth: 15/37 00:00:12 30037kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 Bg4 5.Rdf1 Kh8 6.Qd2 Qe7 7.h3 Bd7 8.Rhg1 Ng3 9.Re1 a6 10.Qd1
+/- (1.12) Depth: 16/39 00:00:21 51908kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 Bg4 5.Rdf1 Kh8 6.Qd2 Qe7 7.h3 Bd7 8.Rhg1
+/- (0.94) Depth: 17/41 00:00:34 84712kN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Nc1 Bg4 5.Rde1 a6 6.Bf1 Kh8 7.Rg1 b5 8.cxb5 axb5 9.Bxb5 Rfb8 10.Nd3 Ra5 11.Nxe5 Qxe5 12.a4 Nf6
+/- (0.96) Depth: 18/46 00:01:00 150mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rdg1 Qe7 5.Nc1 Bg4 6.Be2 a6 7.Nd3 Nxd3 8.Bxd3 b5 9.cxb5 axb5
+/- (0.95) Depth: 19/48 00:02:00 306mN
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rdg1 Qe7 5.Nc1 Bg4 6.Be2 a6 7.Nd3 Nxd3 8.Bxd3 b5 9.cxb5 axb5 10.Nxb5 Rfb8 11.Re1 Kh8 12.Rhf1 Ra5
+/- (0.90) Depth: 20/52 00:03:36 558mN, bb=3
1.Bf2 Nd7 2.0-0-0 Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rdg1 Qe7 5.Nc1 Bg4 6.Be2 a6 7.Nd3 Nxd3 8.Bxd3 b5 9.cxb5 axb5
+/- (0.90) Depth: 21/55 00:06:29 1026mN, bb=3

(, chessengines20 30.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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Spock

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by Spock »

Quad Zappa Mexico II goes with Bf2

Code: Select all

  8/29	 0:00 	+0.89 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Rg1 f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Nb5 Ne5 (276.554) 1106
  8/29	 0:00 	+0.89 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.Rg1 f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Nb5 (327.650) 1106
  9/32	 0:00 	+0.94 	1.Bf2 Kh8 2.e5 Bxe5 3.Bxh7 Bxc3+ 4.bxc3 f3 5.gxf3 Rxf3 (815.906) 1375
  9/32	 0:00 	+0.94 	1.Bf2 Kh8 2.e5 Bxe5 3.Bxh7 Bxc3+ 4.bxc3 (865.853) 1352
 10/37	 0:01 	+0.95 	1.Bf2 f3 2.gxf3 Rxf3 3.Rg1 Nd7 4.Ng3 Nxg3 5.Rxg3 (1.685.047) 1612
 10/37	 0:01 	+0.95 	1.Bf2 f3 2.gxf3 Rxf3 3.Rg1 Nd7 4.Ng3 Nxg3 5.Rxg3 (1.793.806) 1618
 11/41	 0:02 	+0.88 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Qg5 3.Qd2 Qxg2 4.Bh4 Ne5 (3.884.523) 1900
 11/41	 0:02 	+0.88 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Qg5 3.Qd2 Qxg2 4.Bh4 Ne5 (4.145.733) 1898
 12/43	 0:03 	+0.96 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Qg5 3.Qd2 Qxg2 4.Bh4 Ne5 5.Be7 (7.104.276) 2014
 12/43	 0:03 	+0.96 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Qg5 3.Qd2 Qxg2 4.Bh4 Ne5 5.Be7 (7.575.949) 2014
 13/43	 0:06 	+0.83 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Be2 Ng4 6.Bxg4 Bxg4 (12.677.814) 2094
 13/45	 0:07 	+0.83 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Be2 Ng4 6.Bxg4 Bxg4 (14.825.019) 2111
 14/47	 0:10 	+0.80 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Rhe1 b5 6.cxb5 Nxd3 7.Qxd3 (22.370.652) 2143
 14/47	 0:11 	+0.80 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Rhe1 b5 6.cxb5 Nxd3 7.Qxd3 (25.541.597) 2157
 15/47	 0:17 	+0.77 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Qb3 Ng4 6.Rhf1 b5 7.cxb5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 axb5 9.Qxb5 (39.595.848) 2218
 15/47	 0:21 	+0.77 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Qe8 5.Qb3 Ng4 6.Rhf1 b5 7.cxb5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 axb5 9.Qxb5 (47.554.611) 2234
 16/51	 0:36 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Rb8 5.Be2 Qe8 6.Nb3 b5 7.Na5 bxc4 8.Nxc4 Nxc4 9.Bxc4 (83.088.298) 2265
 16/51	 0:46 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Kb1 a6 4.Nc1 Rb8 5.Be2 Qe8 6.Nb3 b5 7.Na5 bxc4 8.Nxc4 Nxc4 9.Bxc4 (105.198.206) 2258
 17/53	 1:39 	+0.75 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.cxb5 Bxe5 (224.754.635) 2264
 17/53	 1:54 	+0.75 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.cxb5 Bxe5 (256.989.301) 2241
 18/55	 2:53 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 a6 4.Nf3 b5 5.Nxe5 Bxe5 6.Rhf1 Bd7 7.Kb1 Rb8 8.Be2 Nf6 (395.554.584) 2274
 18/55	 3:45 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 a6 4.Nf3 b5 5.Nxe5 Bxe5 6.Rhf1 Bd7 7.Kb1 Rb8 8.Be2 Nf6 (511.470.815) 2270
 19/57	 9:41 	+0.74 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.e6 Rb8 (1.317.343.585) 2264
 19/57	11:01 	+0.74 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.e6 Rb8 (1.496.653.323) 2261
 20/59	21:21 	+0.69 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.exd6 bxc4 9.Rd2 Bxc3 10.bxc3 (2.906.858.276) 2269
 20/59	24:58 	+0.69 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Qe2 Qe8 6.Nf3 b5 7.e5 Bg4 8.exd6 bxc4 9.Rd2 Bxc3 10.bxc3 (3.392.177.292) 2263
 21/61	82:26 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Na6 2.e5 Bxe5 3.Bxh7+ Kh8 4.a3 Qg5 5.Be4 Nf6 6.Bf3 Bf5 7.Qb3 b6 8.h3 Nc7 9.O-O-O Rg8 10.h4 (11.185.266.720) 2261
 21/61	91:07 	+0.67 	1.Bf2 Na6 2.e5 Bxe5 3.Bxh7+ Kh8 4.a3 Qg5 5.Be4 Nf6 6.Bf3 Bf5 7.Qb3 b6 8.h3 Nc7 9.O-O-O Rg8 10.h4 (12.337.130.637) 2256
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swami
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by swami »

I don't believe that e5 is the best move positionally, There still is lots of material left on the board. Maybe when the king is castled and you're going for an attack, e5 would look Ok at that point. Now White doesn't have his king castled, nor ready for the fast attack. King side is more or less controlled by Black, and queen side will be dominated as well. So don't really see the point behind e5 now.
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Spock

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by Spock »

swami wrote:I don't believe that e5 is the best move positionally, There still is lots of material left on the board. Maybe when the king is castled and you're going for an attack, e5 would look Ok at that point. Now White doesn't have his king castled, nor ready for the fast attack. King side is more or less controlled by Black, and queen side will be dominated as well. So don't really see the point behind e5 now.
I'm no expert, but I'm not so sure either. I don't think there is any engine out there that will prefer e5. It would be interesting to see an octal analyse this for a day or so..
Zappa was happy to play it but only AFTER it saved it's bishop (see above)
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Spock

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by Spock »

After 10 hrs, Quad Hiarcs 12.1 says Bf2

Code: Select all

 11/27	 0:00 	+1.07 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Qg5 3.Kb1 Ne5 4.Rhg1 Bg4 5.Nb5 Nxd3 6.Rxd3 (1.034.392) 1244
 12/32	 0:01 	+0.83 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Ng1 Rf7 5.Be3 Nf4 (2.650.352) 1389
 13/34	 0:04 	+0.85 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Ng1 Rf7 5.Be3 Nf4 6.Bxf4 Rxf4 7.Nge2 Rf7 8.Kb1 Ne5 9.Qd2 Bg4 10.Rdf1 (6.306.151) 1455
 14/37	 0:11 	+0.79 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Ng1 Rf7 5.Be3 Nf4 6.Bxf4 Rxf4 7.Nge2 Rf2 8.Rdf1 Qf8 9.Rxf2 Qxf2 (17.412.967) 1496
 15/40	 0:35 	+0.93 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Bg3 Nxg3 5.Nxg3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 Ne5 7.Kb1 Qh4 8.Qc2 Bd7 9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 Rf2 11.Rhg1+ Kh8 12.Rd2 Qxh2 13.Rxf2 Qxg1+ 14.Rf1 (52.706.373) 1485
 16/43	 0:59 	+0.84 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O f3 3.gxf3 Rxf3 4.Bg3 Nxg3 5.Nxg3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 Ne5 7.Rhg1 Kh8 8.Kb1 Bh3 (89.954.126) 1498
 17/43	 2:14 	+0.92 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 (199.876.037) 1484
 18/45	 5:45 	+0.90 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nf6 4.h3 Nh5 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Kb1 Ng3 7.Rhe1 Qa5 8.Nb5 Nxd3 9.Rxd3 Bxb5 10.cxb5 (503.221.469) 1456
 19/47	10:53 	+0.82 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nf6 4.h3 Nh5 5.Nf3 Ng3 6.Rhe1 (946.960.242) 1449
 20/50	22:58 	+0.87 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nf6 4.h3 Nh5 5.Nf3 Ng3 6.Rhg1 Bd7 7.Be2 Nxe2+ 8.Qxe2 Qa5 9.Kb1 Qb4 10.Nxe5 Bxe5 11.Rc1 Rae8 12.Rgf1 Kh8 13.g4 (1.987.982.900) 1442
 21/52	50:01 	+0.82 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Rxd3 a6 5.Nf3 b5 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Bh4 Qb6 8.g3 Ng4 9.gxf4 Rxf4 10.Ne2 Rf7 11.Rg1 Nxh2 12.Rdg3 Qc7 13.Kb1 bxc4 14.Nxc4 (4.357.786.027) 1451
 22/56	111:33 	+0.74 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Qxd3 Qa5 5.Nf3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 Qxa2 7.Rhe1 b5 8.cxb5 Rb8 9.Kc2 Qa4+ 10.b3 Qxb5 11.e5 c4 (9.787.805.417) 1462
 23/57	301:18 	+0.77 	1.Bf2 Nd7 2.O-O-O Ne5 3.Ng1 Nxd3+ 4.Qxd3 Qa5 5.Nf3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 Qxa2 7.Rhe1 b5 8.cxb5 a6 9.Bh4 axb5 10.Be7 Ra4 11.Kd2 Re8 12.Ra1 (26.491.017.133) 1465
best move: Be3-f2 time: 605:20.995 min  n/s: 1.472.955  nodes: 53.497.875.873
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User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Difficult Test Position: Positional Sacrifice

Post by beachknight »

swami wrote:I don't believe that e5 is the best move positionally, There still is lots of material left on the board. Maybe when the king is castled and you're going for an attack, e5 would look Ok at that point. Now White doesn't have his king castled, nor ready for the fast attack. King side is more or less controlled by Black, and queen side will be dominated as well. So don't really see the point behind e5 now.
I dont even have an ELO, but I think you are right.

Best,
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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