Study by Timman

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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tano-urayoan
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Study by Timman

Post by tano-urayoan »

[d] 8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - - 0 0

Which is your engine evaluation?
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Anil
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: Study by Timman

Post by Anil »

1. Kb3 Bxd4 2. Kb3b4 {Draw as per 6-men EGTB}

Online 6-men EGTB: http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en
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AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Re: Study by Timman

Post by AdminX »

Image

8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Rybka 3 64-bit:

1.c3 Kc4[] 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.d5 Kxd5 5.Kb1 Ke4 6.Kc2
-/+ (-1.39) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN
-+ (-2.10) Depth: 10 00:00:00 7kN

1.Kb3 Bxd4[] 2.Kb4 Kc6[] 3.c4 Bc5+[] 4.Kc3 b4+[] 5.Kd3 Kd6[] 6.Ke4[] b3[] 7.Kd3[] Bb4[] 8.Kd4[] Kc6[] 9.c5[] Kb5[] 10.c6 Ba5[] 11.Kd3 Kb4[] 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Bg3 14.Kd4 Bf4 15.Kd5
-+ (-1.97) Depth: 10 00:00:00 7kN, tb=1
-+ (-4.36) Depth: 32 00:05:59 53913kN, tb=224293
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
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Re: Study by Timman

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Blueberry takes a while to find the correct move. But at least it can find Kb3, using only 5 men Scorpio's bitbases.


[D]8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - -

Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 Build 314 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot

7/18 0:00 -0.92 1.c3 Bf4 2.b3 Ke4 3.c4 b4 4.d5 Bd6 (85.299)

8/18 0:00 -0.70 1.c3 Bf4 2.b3 Ke4 3.d5 Bd6 4.c4 b4
5.Kb2 Kd4 (166.365)

9/19 0:00 -0.99 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka1 Bf4 3.Kb1 Kd3 4.Ka2 Kc2
5.Ka3 Bd6+ 6.Ka2 Kd3 (271.794)

10/19 0:00 -1.07 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka1 Bf4 3.Kb1 Kb3 4.Ka1 Bd6
5.Kb1 Kc4 6.Kc2 (426.145)

11/29 0:01 -1.07 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kd3
5.Kc1 Bf4+ 6.Kd1 Ke4 7.Ke2 (695.393) 541

12/29 0:01 -1.06 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kd3
5.Ka2 Bf4 6.Kb3 Ke4 7.Kb4 (988.163) 591

13/35 0:02 -1.47 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kb3
5.Kc1 Bg3 6.Kd2 Kxb2 7.Kd3 Kb3 8.d5 Bd6
9.Kd4 (1.504.045) 579

14/37 0:04 -2.02 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bg5 3.Ka2 Bf4 4.Kb1 Kb3
5.d5 Bd6 6.Kc1 Kc4 7.Kc2 Kxd5 8.Kd3 Be5
9.b3 Kc5 (2.891.684) 706

15/45 0:09 -2.60 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.d5 Bd6+ 4.Ka2 Bf8
5.Kb1 Kb3 6.Kc1 Bh6+ 7.Kd1 Kxb2
8.Ke1 (7.308.001) 759

15/45 3:14 -2.09 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Bd6 6.Ke4 Kd7 7.Kd5 b3 8.Kd4 Bg3
9.Kd5 Bf2 10.c5 Be1 (123.910.069) 635

15/45 16:33 -2.14 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 Ke6 (563.132.235) 566

15/63 16:38 -2.14 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 Ke6 7.b3 Bf2 8.Kf4 Bg1
9.Kg5 Ke5 10.Kh6 Bd4 11.Kg6 (567.679.451) 568

16/63 17:36 -2.12 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 (602.806.611) 570

Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Study by Timman

Post by beachknight »

44: 8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - - Deep Fritz 11
8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 11:

1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 21/27 00:00:13 2128kN, tb=14046
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 22/26 00:00:16 2828kN, tb=19902
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Be5 13.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 23/28 00:00:20 3993kN, tb=30381
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 24/28 00:00:24 5260kN, tb=41461
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Be5 13.Ke4 Bf6 14.Kf5 Bd4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 25/30 00:00:28 6957kN, tb=56185
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Be5 13.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 26/29 00:00:33 9135kN, tb=75581
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 27/32 00:00:39 11925kN, tb=100785
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 28/32 00:00:45 15394kN, tb=130521
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 29/33 00:00:51 19335kN, tb=166328
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 30/34 00:00:59 24078kN, tb=206365
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 31/36 00:01:08 29932kN, tb=257796
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 32/37 00:01:18 36785kN, tb=318669
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 33/39 00:01:33 45317kN, tb=395475
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 34/38 00:01:51 57299kN, tb=501646
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 35/40 00:02:08 69953kN, tb=612259
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 36/41 00:02:28 85374kN, tb=755776
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 37/44 00:03:06 118mN, tb=1044162
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 38/46 00:03:43 146mN, tb=1277567
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 39/47 00:04:12 179mN, tb=1544370
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 40/49 00:04:45 217mN, tb=1841688
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 41/50 00:05:33 269mN, tb=2255945
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 42/57 00:06:27 335mN, tb=2726747
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 43/53 00:07:44 427mN, tb=3368581
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 44/56 00:09:24 556mN, tb=4237899
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 45/56 00:11:26 751mN, tb=5488794
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 46/57 00:13:57 1039mN, tb=7332013
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 47/58 00:17:11 1499mN, tb=10175806
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Be7 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bg5 8.Kf5 Be3 9.Ke4 Bd4 10.Kf5 Kc6 11.Ke4 Bh8 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Ke4 Kc6
-+ (-2.31) Depth: 48/63 00:21:11 2188mN, tb=14301631

(, chessengines20 13.02.2009)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Study by Timman

Post by michiguel »

Eelco de Groot wrote:Blueberry takes a while to find the correct move. But at least it can find Kb3, using only 5 men Scorpio's bitbases.


[D]8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - -

Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 Build 314 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot

7/18 0:00 -0.92 1.c3 Bf4 2.b3 Ke4 3.c4 b4 4.d5 Bd6 (85.299)

8/18 0:00 -0.70 1.c3 Bf4 2.b3 Ke4 3.d5 Bd6 4.c4 b4
5.Kb2 Kd4 (166.365)

9/19 0:00 -0.99 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka1 Bf4 3.Kb1 Kd3 4.Ka2 Kc2
5.Ka3 Bd6+ 6.Ka2 Kd3 (271.794)

10/19 0:00 -1.07 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka1 Bf4 3.Kb1 Kb3 4.Ka1 Bd6
5.Kb1 Kc4 6.Kc2 (426.145)

11/29 0:01 -1.07 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kd3
5.Kc1 Bf4+ 6.Kd1 Ke4 7.Ke2 (695.393) 541

12/29 0:01 -1.06 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kd3
5.Ka2 Bf4 6.Kb3 Ke4 7.Kb4 (988.163) 591

13/35 0:02 -1.47 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd6 4.Kb1 Kb3
5.Kc1 Bg3 6.Kd2 Kxb2 7.Kd3 Kb3 8.d5 Bd6
9.Kd4 (1.504.045) 579

14/37 0:04 -2.02 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bg5 3.Ka2 Bf4 4.Kb1 Kb3
5.d5 Bd6 6.Kc1 Kc4 7.Kc2 Kxd5 8.Kd3 Be5
9.b3 Kc5 (2.891.684) 706

15/45 0:09 -2.60 1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.d5 Bd6+ 4.Ka2 Bf8
5.Kb1 Kb3 6.Kc1 Bh6+ 7.Kd1 Kxb2
8.Ke1 (7.308.001) 759

15/45 3:14 -2.09 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Bd6 6.Ke4 Kd7 7.Kd5 b3 8.Kd4 Bg3
9.Kd5 Bf2 10.c5 Be1 (123.910.069) 635

15/45 16:33 -2.14 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 Ke6 (563.132.235) 566

15/63 16:38 -2.14 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 Ke6 7.b3 Bf2 8.Kf4 Bg1
9.Kg5 Ke5 10.Kh6 Bd4 11.Kg6 (567.679.451) 568

16/63 17:36 -2.12 1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+
5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 (602.806.611) 570

Eelco
Gaviota, with 5 pc gaviota tablebases finds it in 15 seconds. This is an example where the engine does not understand what is going on but sees that evertything else is a disaster. That is how the tablebases help: quickly discarding the options.

Miguel

Code: Select all

     79977   9:      0.6    -1.18  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bg5 4.Kb1 Kd5
                                   5.b3
    168015  10       1.0    -1.21  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Be3
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4
    181313  10:      1.2    -1.21  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Be3
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4
    388289  11       1.8    -1.16  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Kd5
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4 6.Kb3
    433270  11:      1.8    -1.16  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Kd5
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4 6.Kb3
    779902  12       2.5    -1.16  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Kd5
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4 6.Kb3 Ke4
    857803  12:      2.7    -1.16  1.c3 Kc4 2.Ka3 Bf4 3.Ka2 Bd2 4.Kb1 Kd5
                                   5.Kc2 Bf4 6.Kb3 Ke4
    909619  13       2.9      :-(  1.c3
   1147710  13       3.5      :-(  
   1286650  13       4.0      :-(  1.c3
   6589950  13      15.0    -2.29  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kb3 Bd6 6.Kc2 Be5 7.b3 Kc5 8.Kd3
   6620576  13:     15.1    -2.29  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kb3 Bd6 6.Kc2 Be5 7.b3 Kc5 8.Kd3
   8989779  14      19.5    -2.31  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kd3 Bf2 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bd4 8.Kd3
                                   Bc3
   9312006  14:     20.1    -2.31  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kd3 Bf2 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bd4 8.Kd3
                                   Bc3
  19432926  15      37.9    -2.30  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kd3 Bf2 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bd4 8.Kd3
                                   Bc3 9.Ke4
  20444526  15:     39.8    -2.30  1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3
                                   b4+ 5.Kd3 Bf2 6.b3 Kc5 7.Ke4 Bd4 8.Kd3
                                   Bc3 9.Ke4
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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Study by Timman

Post by beachknight »

44: 8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - Deep Fritz 11
8/8/8/1p1k4/3P4/4b3/KPP5/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4:

1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.Kb3 Kc5 4.c3 Be5 5.Kc2 Kd5 6.Kd3 Bg7 7.b3 Ke5 8.Kd2 Ke4 9.Kc2 Be5 10.Kd2 Bf6 11.Kc2 Bg5
-+ (-1.99) Depth: 22/31 00:00:07 8293kN, tb=189067
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.Kb3 Kc5 4.c3 Be5 5.Kc2 Kd5 6.Kd3 Bg7 7.b3 Ke5 8.Ke3 Bf6 9.Kd3 Bg5 10.Kc2 Ke4 11.Kb1 Bh6 12.Ka2
-+ (-1.99) Depth: 23/31 00:00:10 12606kN, tb=280375
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7
-+ (-2.19) Depth: 24/56 00:00:24 26847kN, tb=620166
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3
-+ (-2.19) Depth: 25/52 00:00:31 38160kN, tb=876233
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7
-+ (-2.19) Depth: 26/55 00:00:39 52285kN, tb=1174992
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Bf4
-+ (-2.19) Depth: 27/54 00:00:50 72887kN, tb=1574542
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4
-+ (-2.19) Depth: 28/57 00:01:11 117mN, tb=2427181
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kd3
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 29/57 00:01:36 201mN, tb=3662299
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 30/59 00:01:58 262mN, tb=4694889
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 31/61 00:02:24 334mN, tb=5934785
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 32/62 00:02:58 433mN, tb=7515023
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 33/62 00:03:43 571mN, tb=9612539
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Kb4
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 34/62 00:04:35 742mN, tb=12157886
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Kb4 18.Ke2
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 35/62 00:05:34 948mN, tb=15331518
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Kb4 18.Kd4 Bd6
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 36/62 00:06:49 1223mN, tb=19242669
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Bd6 18.Kc3 Bg3 19.Kd2
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 37/62 00:08:32 1619mN, tb=25002012
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Bd6 18.Kc3 Bg3 19.Kd2 Bc7
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 38/62 00:10:46 2166mN, tb=32733540
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Bd6 18.Kc3 Bg3 19.Kd2 Bc7 20.Kc3
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 39/62 00:13:34 2867mN, tb=42877203
1.Kb3 Bxd4 2.Kb4 Kc6 3.c4 Bc5+ 4.Kc3 b4+ 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Ke4 b3 7.Kd3 Bb4 8.Kd4 Kc6 9.c5 Kb5 10.c6 Ba5 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kd4 Bc7 13.Kd3 Kb5 14.Kc3 Ka4 15.Kc4 Bg3 16.Kc3 Bf4 17.Kd3 Bd6 18.Kc3 Bg3 19.Kd2 Bc7 20.Kc3 Bb6
-+ (-2.18) Depth: 40/62 00:18:25 4089mN, tb=58938038

(, chessengines20 13.02.2009)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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bob
Posts: 20943
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Study by Timman

Post by bob »

Is Kbb3 supposed to be so hard to find? Crafty finds it instantly without endgame tables of any kind...
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michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Study by Timman

Post by michiguel »

bob wrote:Is Kbb3 supposed to be so hard to find? Crafty finds it instantly without endgame tables of any kind...
It is about the evaluation. See the original post. I do not think that engines without 6 pc tablebases will be able to understand this position. It is very difficult and deceiving.

Miguel
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Mark
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 pm

Re: Study by Timman

Post by Mark »

michiguel wrote:
bob wrote:Is Kbb3 supposed to be so hard to find? Crafty finds it instantly without endgame tables of any kind...
It is about the evaluation. See the original post. I do not think that engines without 6 pc tablebases will be able to understand this position. It is very difficult and deceiving.

Miguel
Right. Rybka sees the draw with the kbpkpp tablebases.

[+0.00] d=27 1.Kb3 Bd2 2.c3 Kc6 3.Kb4 Kb6 4.Kb3 Ka5 5.Ka3 Bf4 6.b4+ Kb6 7.Kb3 Bc7 8.c4 Bh2 9.cxb5 Bc7 10.Kc4 Bd8 11.Kd5 Bf6 12.Ke4 Kxb5 13.d5 Be7 14.Ke5 (0:01.15) 2050kN
[+0.00] d=26 1.Kb3 Bd2 2.c3 Kc6 3.Kb4 Kb6 4.Kb3 Ka5 5.Ka3 Bf4 6.b4+ Kb6 7.Kb3 Bc7 8.c4 Bh2 9.cxb5 Bc7 10.Kc4 Bd8 11.Kd5 Bf6 12.Ke4 Kxb5 13.d5 Be7 14.Ke5 (0:01.06) 1799kN
[+0.00] d=25 1.Kb3 Bd2 2.c3 Kc6 3.Kb4 Kb6 4.Kb3 Ka5 5.Ka3 Bf4 6.b4+ Kb6 7.Kb3 Bc7 8.c4 Bh2 9.cxb5 Bc7 10.Kc4 (0:00.55) 1673kN
[-0.10] d=24 1.Kb3 Bd2 2.c3 Kc6 3.Kb4 Kb6 4.Kb3 Ka5 5.Ka3 Bf4 6.b4+ Kb6 7.Kb3 Bc7 8.c4 Bh2 9.cxb5 Bc7 10.Kc4 Bd8 11.Kd3 (0:00.38) 888kN
[-0.20] d=23 1.Kb3 Bd2 2.c3 Kc6 3.Kb4 Kb6 4.Kb3 Ka5 5.Ka3 Bf4 6.b4+ Kb6 7.Kb3 Bc7 8.c4 Bh2 9.cxb5 Bc7 10.Kc4 Bd8 11.Kd3 Bf6 12.Kc4 (0:00.23) 497kN
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