On discussing clones

[bob]

This forum was created _by programmers_. What the non-programmers want does not matter to me at all. They are free to read and participate when they want. I do not want to see them dictate what can or can not be discussed here. If this continues, you are going to have a forum with _zero_ technical content because the authors are going to disappear...

Perhaps a compromise would be to discuss cloning issues in the programmers subforum where the "experts" are?

Although non-programmers obviously wouldn't have a hobby without the programmers, likewise the programmers would be much worse off without those enthusiasts who are non-programmers.
Yet it says a lot when the non-programmer enthusiasts are repeatedly reminded about their inferior status.

1. Please point out where I said non-programmers are "inferior"??? Any post, any forum will do...

2. Of course, you are not going to be able to find that because I didn't say it. I feel quite comfortable visiting _other_ (non-CC) fora, but I am not going to try to tell those people what they ought to be doing in the fora they created. I can choose to read, to post, or to leave. And I won't feel inferior to any of them.

The point you want to keep overlooking is that this place was created _by_ programmers. _for_ programmers. I welcome anyone that wants to participate, but don't come in here and then tell us what we can and can't, or should or shouldn't discuss. Those that don't like the discussions can go to hundreds of other places and avoid them completely.

Whenever anyone wants me to stop posting, I'll be quite happy to do so and move on somewhere else. Otherwise I am going to treat this place as a "for programmers, primarily, anyone welcome in general" message board...

As far as being worse off without the users, in my case you are dead wrong. I was doing this in 1968. There were no "users". I was doing this in the 70's. There were no "users". If someone finds my program useful, that's great. If no one finds it useful, it wouldn't change what I do because I happen to enjoy doing this stuff...

[Matthias Gemuh]

The first post in the thread was Thursday
the thread was locked Today
three days

the thread was moderated for several reasons including personal attacks,OT nature AND the clone issue

Steve

This thread is exclusively about cloning, so when I say "It did not even last as long as half a day.", that refers to postings about cloning.
Bob obviously is also referring solely to the duration of the postings about cloning.

Matthias.

[Steve B]

i was referring to the other thread Matthias
this thread has not been moderated at all
(except to remove personal attack posts fir which we have received complaints)

Steve

[bob]

Let's keep this 100% honest. The above statement is _false_. I had read this thread, and the "moderation" happened overnight. Not over "for days"... I had not even seen what Vincent wrote because it was removed within hours of it being posted...

the above statement is 100 % honest
the thread started on Thursday and was locked today
thats three days...i did not say four days..i said it ran for days

the point of my reply to your question about Clone discussions is to answer that clone discussions are permitted but not wild accusation where no evidence is offered
especially when followed up by a number of member complaints
that's the moderation philosophy of this team

Steve

Go back to the start of the thread. _no_ mention of cloning. No insults. Just a discussion about some fictitious hardware speeds. The _clone_ issue was apparently broached last night. Hence my "what did I miss". So again, read and follow what is going on or don't comment. The "clone stuff" was _not_ going on for days. It did not go on for a day. And your post that I carefully quoted clearly shows the statement I was responding to. Since you seem to have forgotten:

of course there was no such requirement made by us
the thread in question was allowed to run for days with no clone evidence given except for some weak speculation that Mr. X also Thinks it is a clone

I'd assume in light of the above you might want to reconsider your statement since it is both false and doesn't discuss what actually went on??? I am not sure what time I looked in last, yesterday, but at that point there was nothing about cloning that I noticed, yet when I popped in this morning, someone was already complaining about moderation and deleted posts. It was not going on "for days".

This delete clone threads instantly is stupid. Speaking for at least one of the original 10 people that formed this place, it is UNWANTED as well. And nothing I wrote is based on fiction or imagination either...

[bob]

The first post in the thread was Thursday
the thread was locked Today
three days

the thread was moderated for several reasons including personal attacks,OT nature AND the clone issue

Steve

Would you please stop responding with pure bullshit and purporting it to be fact. The _thread_ went on for 3 days. No mention of cloning until last night. All you have to do is look at the posts before you write nonsense. Apparently Vincent said something about Naum last night. First mention of clones in the thread. By the time I logged on this AM his post (and apparently some replies) had been deleted by the usual heavy-handed moderators that simply can't figure out how this place should work. Why, is beyond me as it has been pretty simple in the past and we have not had to endure all this post deleting bullshit until the last 12-18 months or so.

You don't like my tone? ban me. Otherwise stop replying with garbage that is false...

[bob]

If the general feeling here is that discussing clones is a no-no here, then I am more than willing to take my discussions back to r.g.c.c where while we have to live with excessive noise, we don't have to live with excessive "thought police" running around.

Good idea!
Everybody can take "gossips", "rumors", "speculations" or "smears" to rgcc and keep
evidence here.

Miguel[/quote

Sorry, but one is not allowed to post evidence until after cloning has been proven. And that is a problem... Perhaps the motive here is to close down CCC? We are heading in that direction... There are not many "programmers" left here... What happens when there are "none"???

[Steve B]

you can post as many insults my way as you please Bob
i have followed the thread since its inception and we have been discussing it in the mod forum since the first complaint came in(which was the Suj issue)

you asked a question if cloning discussion is permitted and it was answered in the affirmative..

you can have the last post(insult) about this as i will not respond again

Steve

[bob]

you can post as many insults my way as you please Bob
i have followed the thread since its inception and we have been discussing it in the mod forum since the first complaint came in(which was the Suj issue)

you asked a question if cloning discussion is permitted and it was answered in the affirmative..

you can have the last post(insult) about this as i will not respond again

Steve

From what I have seen so far, that is a step in the right direction, IMHO. And no matter what you say, cloning was not mentioned until last night and it was apparently deleted within _hours_, not the "days" you want to imply...

yawn...

[Graham Banks]

There are not many "programmers" left here

With all due respect, the programming subforum here looks as though it is more active than anywhere else I've come across.

[Matthias Gemuh]

i was referring to the other thread Matthias
this thread has not been moderated at all
(except to remove personal attack posts fir which we have received complaints)

Steve

I too, I am referring to that thread, limiting my statements to clone postings, as that is what this thread is about.

The point is that nobody, potentially equipped to contribute in the cloning issue in that thread, was given as long as half a day to notice and join in.
This quick deletion of cloning threads is relatively new in this CCC.
That is the point.

Matthias.