On discussing clones

[Steve B]

I too, I am referring to that thread, limiting my statements to clone postings, as that is what this thread is about.

The point is that nobody, potentially equipped to contribute in the cloning issue in that thread, was given as long as half a day to notice and join in.
This quick deletion of cloning threads is relatively new in this CCC.
That is the point.

Matthias.

the first instance of a clone accusation was posted on Thursday at 9:17pm in the evening
we immediately received complaints about it
no moderation was preformed on that issue until Yesterday afternoon 3:08 pm

so i guess thats about 18 hours

Steve

[bob]

I too, I am referring to that thread, limiting my statements to clone postings, as that is what this thread is about.

The point is that nobody, potentially equipped to contribute in the cloning issue in that thread, was given as long as half a day to notice and join in.
This quick deletion of cloning threads is relatively new in this CCC.
That is the point.

Matthias.

the first instance of a clone accusation was posted on Thursday at 9:17pm in the evening
we immediately received complaints about it
no moderation was preformed on that issue until Yesterday afternoon 3:08 pm

so i guess thats about 18 hours

Steve

Why don't you check the dates and times since you should have access to the deleted posts. Vincent's post was _not_ up for 18 hours, at least the one that mentioned cloning... But even 18 hours is a direct contradiction to your earlier "for days"...

You guys simply once again jumped the gun giving in to "mob rule" by the ones (one?) that complained...

[bob]

There are not many "programmers" left here

With all due respect, the programming subforum here looks as though it is more active than anywhere else I've come across.

Count the number of programmers that are posting. It is not about the number of posts, it is about the number of posters... That number is less than 1/4 of what it was when we started CCC...

[Graham Banks]

There are not many "programmers" left here

With all due respect, the programming subforum here looks as though it is more active than anywhere else I've come across.

Count the number of programmers that are posting. It is not about the number of posts, it is about the number of posters... That number is less than 1/4 of what it was when we started CCC...

Fair enough.
Changing tack, it seems as though you're making nice progress with Crafty.

[Steve B]

I too, I am referring to that thread, limiting my statements to clone postings, as that is what this thread is about.

The point is that nobody, potentially equipped to contribute in the cloning issue in that thread, was given as long as half a day to notice and join in.
This quick deletion of cloning threads is relatively new in this CCC.
That is the point.

Matthias.

the first instance of a clone accusation was posted on Thursday at 9:17pm in the evening
we immediately received complaints about it
no moderation was preformed on that issue until Yesterday afternoon 3:08 pm

so i guess thats about 18 hours

Steve

Why don't you check the dates and times since you should have access to the deleted posts. Vincent's post was _not_ up for 18 hours, at least the one that mentioned cloning... But even 18 hours is a direct contradiction to your earlier "for days"...

You guys simply once again jumped the gun giving in to "mob rule" by the ones (one?) that complained...

i did check back before i gave the above times
it is as i posted them
the first time that Naum was mentioned as a potential clone was on Thursday 9:17 PM(it was made as a side remark and not the main point of the post)
we received complaints about that post and from that point forward

i dont remember exactly but i think we received about 4-5 complaints on the accusation issue alone during that time not to mention complaints about the personal attacks and other complaints about the Suj Topic as being OT
the thread was a mess from the beginning and finally locked today
now perhaps some will complain that 18 hours is not enough time and others posted wondering if the mods were even here.. as no moderation was preformed during that time

its a rare day when we dont receive a complaint on some post or another and many times after discussing it we deem no moderation action is necessary
however when moderation is performed you are going to please some and anger others
moderation is like that as you well know
i knew that from the getgo and i have no problem with it

if you or others feel strongly that we (or i )are not serving the board well then i invite you to call for early elections for new moderators or just for one moderator(me)

Steve

[bob]

I too, I am referring to that thread, limiting my statements to clone postings, as that is what this thread is about.

The point is that nobody, potentially equipped to contribute in the cloning issue in that thread, was given as long as half a day to notice and join in.
This quick deletion of cloning threads is relatively new in this CCC.
That is the point.

Matthias.

the first instance of a clone accusation was posted on Thursday at 9:17pm in the evening
we immediately received complaints about it
no moderation was preformed on that issue until Yesterday afternoon 3:08 pm

so i guess thats about 18 hours

Steve

Why don't you check the dates and times since you should have access to the deleted posts. Vincent's post was _not_ up for 18 hours, at least the one that mentioned cloning... But even 18 hours is a direct contradiction to your earlier "for days"...

You guys simply once again jumped the gun giving in to "mob rule" by the ones (one?) that complained...

i did check back before i gave the above times
it is as i posted them
the first time that Naum was mentioned as a potential clone was on Thursday 9:17 PM(it was made as a side remark and not the main point of the post)
we received complaints about that post and from that point forward

i dont remember exactly but i think we received about 4-5 complaints on the accusation issue alone during that time not to mention complaints about the personal attacks and other complaints about the Suj Topic as being OT
the thread was a mess from the beginning and finally locked today
now perhaps some will complain that 18 hours is not enough time and others posted wondering if the mods were even here.. as no moderation was preformed during that time

its a rare day when we dont receive a complaint on some post or another and many times after discussing it we deem no moderation action is necessary
however when moderation is performed you are going to please some and anger others
moderation is like that as you well know
i knew that from the getgo and i have no problem with it

if you or others feel strongly that we (or i )are not serving the board well then i invite you to call for early elections for new moderators or just for one moderator(me)

Steve

I do not mind seeing personal attacks moderated, but I do not like the current mantra "clone accusations are against the charter." They are not. At least not any charter I was ever a part of putting together for this place...

[bob]

There are not many "programmers" left here

With all due respect, the programming subforum here looks as though it is more active than anywhere else I've come across.

Count the number of programmers that are posting. It is not about the number of posts, it is about the number of posters... That number is less than 1/4 of what it was when we started CCC...

Fair enough.
Changing tack, it seems as though you're making nice progress with Crafty.

We are trying. We have good weeks and bad weeks however.

[Volker Pittlik]

...
if you or others feel strongly that we (or i )are not serving the board well then i invite you to call for early elections for new moderators or just for one moderator(me)...

The same is true for me.

Since I'm in charge here I'm called an "arsehole", someone who uses "fascist methods" and now it seems I'm in general an inferior life form cause I haven't written a (public) chess program.

I have done a lot of moderations as a part of my job. There have been some very rare occasions when it was impossible to work with some single members of a group. For some part the reason could be an incompetence on my side. But its also possible there are certain people who simply couldn't accept any moderation at all. In any case its best (and necessary) to make clear if both sides are willing to continue cooperation. My spare time is limited and I don't like to waste it by doing things which have become pointless.

Volker

[mclane]

and you think it is the right method to see that people like bob or vincent or christophe have to discuss their cloning issues with non programmers or fans of rybka ? or getting insulted by the "fans" ?
bob is absolutely right. we made this forum to give the programmers back their SPACE to discuss things out, talk about computerchess. and it was a GIFT that they were so nice to talk with us too about things.

but in the moment the NON programmers suddenly decide about what is allowed in the forum or not, or believe they could DISCUSS programming issues about source code ...

there is something wrong here.

[Graham Banks]

and you think it is the right method to see that people like bob or vincent or christophe have to discuss their cloning issues with non programmers or fans of rybka ? or getting insulted by the "fans" ?
bob is absolutely right. we made this forum to give the programmers back their SPACE to discuss things out, talk about computerchess. and it was a GIFT that they were so nice to talk with us too about things.

but in the moment the NON programmers suddenly decide about what is allowed in the forum or not, or believe they could DISCUSS programming issues about source code ...

there is something wrong here.

Once a member gains access to the message board, he may read all messages and post new or response messages with the proviso that these new or response messages:

1. Are, within reason, on the topic of computer chess
2. Are not abusive in nature
3. Do not contain personal and/or libelous attacks on others
4. Are not flagrant commercial exhortations
5. Are not of questionable legal status.

Surely casting aspersions about the legality of a commercial product in a public forum is covered by point 5 of the charter (which was written by the founders).
What are the moderators to do?