Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
[D]7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - -
Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
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- Posts: 6401
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
- Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
They have to have the right knowledge, which I doubt most will care to have. "a" and "b" pawns are draw, the rest black wins. A human player that studied endgames spots this immediately.Matthias Gemuh wrote:Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
[D]7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - -
The other possibility is to have 6pc TBs, of course.
Miguel
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- Posts: 6340
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
- Location: Acworth, GA
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
[d]7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - - 0 1
Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1 64-bit:
1. = (0.00): 1...Kg6
2. = (0.00): 1...Kg4
3. = (0.00): 1...Kg5
So I believe Glaurung and Stockfish will see it as well.
Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1 64-bit:
1. = (0.00): 1...Kg6
2. = (0.00): 1...Kg4
3. = (0.00): 1...Kg5
So I believe Glaurung and Stockfish will see it as well.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
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- Posts: 536
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:53 am
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
I do NOT get this result with Smaug 2.2.1 (32-bit on this particular system):AdminX wrote:[d]7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - - 0 1
Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1 64-bit:
1. = (0.00): 1...Kg6
2. = (0.00): 1...Kg4
3. = (0.00): 1...Kg5
So I believe Glaurung and Stockfish will see it as well.
25 -4.62 1.... Kg6 2.Rh4 b5 3.Rh8 Kf5 4.Rh4 Kg5 5.Rh8 Kg4 6.Rg8+ Kf3 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf2 9.Rf8+ Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kf4 11.Rf8+ Ke3 12.Rh8 Ke4 13.Re8+ Kd3 14.Rd8+ Kc4 15.Rh8 Kd5 16.Rd8+ Kc5 17.Rc8+ Kd6 18.Rh8 Ke6 (21.73)
26 -4.64 1.... Kg6 2.Rh4 b5 3.Rh8 Kf5 4.Rh4 Kg5 5.Rh8 Kg4 6.Rg8+ Kf3 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf2 9.Rf8+ Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kf4 11.Rf8+ Ke3 12.Rh8 Ke4 13.Re8+ Kd3 14.Rd8+ Kc4 15.Rh8 Kd5 16.Rd8+ Kc5 17.Rc8+ Kd6 18.Rd8+ Ke5 19.Re8+ Kd4 20.Kc2 (28.50)
27 -4.50 1.... Kg6 2.Rh4 b5 3.Rh8 Kf5 4.Rh4 Kg5 5.Rh8 Kg4 6.Rg8+ Kf3 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf2 9.Rf8+ Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kf4 11.Rf8+ Ke3 12.Rh8 Ke4 13.Re8+ Kd3 14.Rd8+ Kc4 15.Rh8 Kd5 16.Rd8+ Kc5 17.Rc8+ Kd6 18.Rd8+ Ke6 19.Re8+ Kd7 20.Rh8 Kc6 (228.53)
28 -4.62 1.... Kg6 2.Rh4 b5 3.Rh8 Kf5 4.Rh4 Kg5 5.Rh8 Kg4 6.Rg8+ Kf3 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf2 9.Rf8+ Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kf4 11.Rf8+ Ke3 12.Re8+ Kd4 13.Rd8+ Ke5 14.Re8+ Kf6 15.Rh8 b4 16.Rh5 Ke6 17.Rh8 Kf5 18.Rh4 Ke5 19.Rh5+ Kd4 20.Rh4+ Kc5 21.Kc2 (244.71)
Is this a bug of some sort?
Roy
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- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name:
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
One possibility is that the Chessbase GUI takes over using tablebases, because it is already a 6 men position to start with. But that would mean that Ted has the 6 men tablebases installed for this position and he would have figured that out. I would be amazed if Glaurung or Smaug can see a draw here, without even 5 men tablebases used by the engine!
Regards, Eelco
7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - -
Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 build 393 (128 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot
5/42 0:45 +3.18 1...Kg5 2.Rh7 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Rg8+ Kf4
5.Rf8+ Ke4 6.Re8+ Kd5 7.Rd8+ Kc4
8.Rc8+ Kd4 (26.707.128) 592
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf5 3.Rh8 b5 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh8 Kf4 6.Rh3 b4 7.Rh8 Kf5 8.Rf8+ Ke4
9.Re8+ Kd5 (27.473.802) 580
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 Kg6 (27.475.120) 580
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 Kg6 (27.499.562) 580
6/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kh4 3.Rh8+ Kg3 4.Rg8+ Kf4
5.Rf8+ Kg5 6.Rg8+ Kf5 7.Rh8 (27.577.990) 575
6/44 0:52 +3.22 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 Kf5
5.Kb2 b3 6.Rh3 Kg4 7.Rh8 Kg3 8.Rg8+ Kf4
9.Rf8+ Ke3 10.Re8+ Kd3 11.Rd8+ Kc4
12.Rc8+ Kb4 (29.421.856) 552
6/46 0:54 +3.22 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 Kf5
5.Kb2 b3 6.Rh3 Ke4 7.Rh7 Kf3 8.Rh8 Kg3
9.Rg8+ Kf2 (30.626.298) 563
6/46 0:57 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 b3+
5.Kb2 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kg4 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke6 (33.271.671) 579
7/46 0:57 +3.18 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Rh4 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kf5 6.Rf7+ Ke4 7.Re7+ Kd5
8.Rd7+ Kc4 9.Rc7+ Kd4 (33.284.542) 579
7/46 1:00 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rh8 Ke5 4.Rh7 Kf5
5.Rh3 b5 6.Rh5+ Kg4 7.Rh8 b4 8.Rg8+ Kh4
9.Rh8+ Kg5 10.Rg8+ Kf6 11.Rh8 Kf5
12.Rf8+ Ke4 13.Re8+ Kd5 (35.313.846) 580
7/46 1:00 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 b5 (35.370.981) 580
7/48 2:05 +3.26 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Kg5 4.Rh8 b5
5.Rg8+ Kf6 6.Rh8 b4 7.Rh5 Kg6 8.Rh3 b3
9.Rh8 Kg5 10.Rh7 Kg4 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke4 13.Re7+ Kd5 14.Rd7+ Ke6 (97.567.845) 778
8/48 2:05 +3.22 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Kg5 4.Rh8 b5
5.Rg8+ Kf6 6.Rh8 b4 7.Rh3 Kf5 8.Rf3+ Ke4 (97.629.149) 778
8/48 5:11 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kg3 8.Rg8+ Kh4
9.Rh8+ Kg4 10.Rh7 Kg3 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke5 13.Re7+ Kd6 (290.699.368) 934
8/48 5:28 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rf8+ Ke3
9.Rh8 Kf2 10.Rf8+ Kg2 11.Rg8+ (308.028.126) 936
8/52 11:35 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf3 10.Rf7+ Kg4 (678.881.636) 976
9/52 11:36 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kg4 6.Rh8 b3 7.Rh7 Kg3 8.Rg7+ Kf4
9.Rf7+ Ke5 10.Re7+ Kd6 (679.428.600) 975
10/52 11:41 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kg4 6.Rh8 b3 7.Rh7 Kg3 8.Rg7+ Kf4
9.Rf7+ Ke5 10.Re7+ Kd6 (683.093.640) 974
11/52 11:47 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf6 7.Rh5 Kf7 8.Rh7+ Kg6 (688.681.189) 972
12/52 11:59 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Ke5 11.Re7+ Kd6 (698.919.379) 970
13/52 12:20 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf3 10.Rf7+ Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke6 (715.350.975) 966
14/52 12:52 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kh4 10.Rh7+ Kg5 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke5 13.Re7+ Kd6 (741.775.613) 960
15/58 12:57 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kh4 10.Rh7+ Kg4 11.Rh8 Kg3
12.Rg8+ Kf4 13.Rf8+ Ke5 14.Re8+ Kd6 (746.762.070) 960
16/64 14:04 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Kg4 13.Rg7+ Kf5 14.Rf7+ Ke6 (805.385.261) 953
17/64 15:43 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Ke4
9.Re7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Kg5 11.Rh7 Kg4
12.Rg7+ Kf5 13.Rf7+ Ke5 14.Re7+ Kd5 (896.365.376) 950
18/78 18:25 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kf5
12.Rh7 Kg4 13.Rg7+ Kf5 14.Rf7+ Ke5 (1.045.905.253) 946
19/78 23:23 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke5 13.Rh7 Kf4 14.Rf7+ Kg4 (1.315.115.955) 937
20/78 32:36 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kg4 11.Rh8 Kg3
12.Rg8+ Kh4 13.Rh8+ Kg4 14.Rh7 Kf5 (1.823.074.324) 931
21/78 48:02 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke5 11.Rh8 Ke4
12.Rh3 Kf5 13.Rh7 Kg4 14.Rg7+ Kf5 (2.679.321.606) 929
22/78 80:35 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Ke5
12.Rh8 Kf6 13.Rh5 Kf7 14.Rh7+ Kg6 (4.540.064.557) 938
23/78 145:50 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Ke5
12.Rh8 Ke4 13.Rh3 Kd4 14.Rh7 Ke5 (8.286.144.751) 946
24/90 333:04 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Kf6
12.Rh5 Ke6 13.Rh3 Ke5 14.Rh7 Ke4 (20.290.407.846)1015
best move: Kh5-g6 time: 381:45.047 min n/s: 1.020.707 CPU 100.0% n/s(1CPU): 1.020.707 nodes: 23.358.490.000
not found...
Regards, Eelco
7R/8/1p6/7k/8/8/1K5p/7r b - -
Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 build 393 (128 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot
5/42 0:45 +3.18 1...Kg5 2.Rh7 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Rg8+ Kf4
5.Rf8+ Ke4 6.Re8+ Kd5 7.Rd8+ Kc4
8.Rc8+ Kd4 (26.707.128) 592
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf5 3.Rh8 b5 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh8 Kf4 6.Rh3 b4 7.Rh8 Kf5 8.Rf8+ Ke4
9.Re8+ Kd5 (27.473.802) 580
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 Kg6 (27.475.120) 580
5/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 Kg6 (27.499.562) 580
6/44 0:47 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kh4 3.Rh8+ Kg3 4.Rg8+ Kf4
5.Rf8+ Kg5 6.Rg8+ Kf5 7.Rh8 (27.577.990) 575
6/44 0:52 +3.22 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 Kf5
5.Kb2 b3 6.Rh3 Kg4 7.Rh8 Kg3 8.Rg8+ Kf4
9.Rf8+ Ke3 10.Re8+ Kd3 11.Rd8+ Kc4
12.Rc8+ Kb4 (29.421.856) 552
6/46 0:54 +3.22 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 Kf5
5.Kb2 b3 6.Rh3 Ke4 7.Rh7 Kf3 8.Rh8 Kg3
9.Rg8+ Kf2 (30.626.298) 563
6/46 0:57 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Ka2 b3+
5.Kb2 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kg4 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke6 (33.271.671) 579
7/46 0:57 +3.18 1...Kg6 2.Rh3 b5 3.Rh8 b4 4.Rh4 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kf5 6.Rf7+ Ke4 7.Re7+ Kd5
8.Rd7+ Kc4 9.Rc7+ Kd4 (33.284.542) 579
7/46 1:00 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rh8 Ke5 4.Rh7 Kf5
5.Rh3 b5 6.Rh5+ Kg4 7.Rh8 b4 8.Rg8+ Kh4
9.Rh8+ Kg5 10.Rg8+ Kf6 11.Rh8 Kf5
12.Rf8+ Ke4 13.Re8+ Kd5 (35.313.846) 580
7/46 1:00 +3.19 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Ke5 4.Re8+ Kf6
5.Rh8 b5 (35.370.981) 580
7/48 2:05 +3.26 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Kg5 4.Rh8 b5
5.Rg8+ Kf6 6.Rh8 b4 7.Rh5 Kg6 8.Rh3 b3
9.Rh8 Kg5 10.Rh7 Kg4 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke4 13.Re7+ Kd5 14.Rd7+ Ke6 (97.567.845) 778
8/48 2:05 +3.22 1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kf4 3.Rf8+ Kg5 4.Rh8 b5
5.Rg8+ Kf6 6.Rh8 b4 7.Rh3 Kf5 8.Rf3+ Ke4 (97.629.149) 778
8/48 5:11 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kg3 8.Rg8+ Kh4
9.Rh8+ Kg4 10.Rh7 Kg3 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke5 13.Re7+ Kd6 (290.699.368) 934
8/48 5:28 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rf8+ Ke3
9.Rh8 Kf2 10.Rf8+ Kg2 11.Rg8+ (308.028.126) 936
8/52 11:35 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf3 10.Rf7+ Kg4 (678.881.636) 976
9/52 11:36 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kg4 6.Rh8 b3 7.Rh7 Kg3 8.Rg7+ Kf4
9.Rf7+ Ke5 10.Re7+ Kd6 (679.428.600) 975
10/52 11:41 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 Kg5
5.Rh7 Kg4 6.Rh8 b3 7.Rh7 Kg3 8.Rg7+ Kf4
9.Rf7+ Ke5 10.Re7+ Kd6 (683.093.640) 974
11/52 11:47 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf6 7.Rh5 Kf7 8.Rh7+ Kg6 (688.681.189) 972
12/52 11:59 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Ke5 11.Re7+ Kd6 (698.919.379) 970
13/52 12:20 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf3 10.Rf7+ Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke6 (715.350.975) 966
14/52 12:52 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kh4 10.Rh7+ Kg5 11.Rg7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Ke5 13.Re7+ Kd6 (741.775.613) 960
15/58 12:57 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kh4 10.Rh7+ Kg4 11.Rh8 Kg3
12.Rg8+ Kf4 13.Rf8+ Ke5 14.Re8+ Kd6 (746.762.070) 960
16/64 14:04 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kf4
12.Rf7+ Kg4 13.Rg7+ Kf5 14.Rf7+ Ke6 (805.385.261) 953
17/64 15:43 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Ke4
9.Re7+ Kf4 10.Rf7+ Kg5 11.Rh7 Kg4
12.Rg7+ Kf5 13.Rf7+ Ke5 14.Re7+ Kd5 (896.365.376) 950
18/78 18:25 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kf5
12.Rh7 Kg4 13.Rg7+ Kf5 14.Rf7+ Ke5 (1.045.905.253) 946
19/78 23:23 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke4 11.Re7+ Kd5
12.Rd7+ Ke5 13.Rh7 Kf4 14.Rf7+ Kg4 (1.315.115.955) 937
20/78 32:36 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kg4 11.Rh8 Kg3
12.Rg8+ Kh4 13.Rh8+ Kg4 14.Rh7 Kf5 (1.823.074.324) 931
21/78 48:02 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Ke5 11.Rh8 Ke4
12.Rh3 Kf5 13.Rh7 Kg4 14.Rg7+ Kf5 (2.679.321.606) 929
22/78 80:35 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Ke5
12.Rh8 Kf6 13.Rh5 Kf7 14.Rh7+ Kg6 (4.540.064.557) 938
23/78 145:50 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Ke5
12.Rh8 Ke4 13.Rh3 Kd4 14.Rh7 Ke5 (8.286.144.751) 946
24/90 333:04 +3.26 1...Kg6 2.Ka2 b5 3.Kb2 b4 4.Rh3 b3
5.Rh8 Kg5 6.Rh3 Kf4 7.Rh8 Kf3 8.Rh7 Kg3
9.Rg7+ Kf4 10.Rh7 Kf5 11.Rh4 Kf6
12.Rh5 Ke6 13.Rh3 Ke5 14.Rh7 Ke4 (20.290.407.846)1015
best move: Kh5-g6 time: 381:45.047 min n/s: 1.020.707 CPU 100.0% n/s(1CPU): 1.020.707 nodes: 23.358.490.000
not found...
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:30 pm
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
I think this output is kind of a (bad/stupid?) joke: maybe that's what you get (with GUI detection) if you have the relevant 6-piece Nalimov...royb wrote:I do NOT get this result with Smaug 2.2.1AdminX wrote:Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1 64-bit:
1. = (0.00): 1...Kg6
2. = (0.00): 1...Kg4
3. = (0.00): 1...Kg5
So I believe Glaurung and Stockfish will see it as well.
Anyway, I pushed the analysis a bit longer, and got no further than you did:
Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1:
1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kh5 3.Rh8+ Kg5 4.Rg8+ Kh4 5.Rh8+ Kg3 6.Rg8+ Kf2 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf1 9.Rf8+ Ke2 10.Re8+ Kd3 11.Rd8+ Ke3 12.Re8+ Kd4 13.Rh8 Ke5 14.Rh6 b5 15.Rh8 Kf5 16.Rf8+ Ke4 17.Re8+ Kf3 18.Rh8 Kf4 19.Rf8+ Ke3 20.Re8+ Kd4 21.Rd8+ Kc4 22.Rh8 b4 23.Rh4+ Kc5 24.Kc2
-+ (-4.62) Depth: 28 00:02:42 545mN
1...Kg4 2.Rh6 b5 3.Rh7 b4 4.Rg7+ Kf4 5.Rf7+ Kg3 6.Rg7+ Kf2 7.Rf7+ Ke3 8.Re7+ Kd3 9.Rh7 Ke4 10.Rh4+ Kf3 11.Rh7 b3 12.Rf7+ Ke4 13.Re7+ Kf5 14.Rh7 Kf4 15.Rh6 Ke4 16.Rh8 Kf3 17.Rf8+ Kg2 18.Rg8+ Kf2 19.Rf8+ Ke2 20.Re8+ Kd3 21.Rd8+ Ke3 22.Rh8 Ke4 23.Re8+ Kf3 24.Kxb3
-+ (-3.94) Depth: 29 00:03:25 710mN
1...Kg4 2.Rh6 b5 3.Rh7 Kg3 4.Rg7+ Kh3 5.Rh7+ Kg2 6.Rg7+ Kf2 7.Rf7+ Ke3 8.Rh7 Kf3 9.Rh8 Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kh4 11.Rh8+ Kg5 12.Ka2 Kf5 13.Rh5+ Ke6 14.Rh6+ Kd5 15.Rh5+ Kc4 16.Kb2 b4 17.Rh8 Kb5 18.Rh3 Kc6 19.Rh4 Kc5 20.Kc2 b3+ 21.Kb2 Kd5 22.Kxb3
-+ (-3.74) Depth: 30 01:03:50 15976mN
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- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:53 am
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
It turns out that Smaug (and other Glaurung derivatives) do NOT use TBs at all, so that's not a factor here. Your output is much closer to mine in that Smaug does not see a draw by any means. I'm still baffled as to how Ted got those values from Smaug.ernest wrote:I think this output is kind of a (bad/stupid?) joke: maybe that's what you get (with GUI detection) if you have the relevant 6-piece Nalimov...royb wrote:I do NOT get this result with Smaug 2.2.1AdminX wrote:Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1 64-bit:
1. = (0.00): 1...Kg6
2. = (0.00): 1...Kg4
3. = (0.00): 1...Kg5
So I believe Glaurung and Stockfish will see it as well.
Anyway, I pushed the analysis a bit longer, and got no further than you did:
Analysis by Smaug 2.2.1:
1...Kg4 2.Rg8+ Kh5 3.Rh8+ Kg5 4.Rg8+ Kh4 5.Rh8+ Kg3 6.Rg8+ Kf2 7.Rf8+ Kg2 8.Rg8+ Kf1 9.Rf8+ Ke2 10.Re8+ Kd3 11.Rd8+ Ke3 12.Re8+ Kd4 13.Rh8 Ke5 14.Rh6 b5 15.Rh8 Kf5 16.Rf8+ Ke4 17.Re8+ Kf3 18.Rh8 Kf4 19.Rf8+ Ke3 20.Re8+ Kd4 21.Rd8+ Kc4 22.Rh8 b4 23.Rh4+ Kc5 24.Kc2
-+ (-4.62) Depth: 28 00:02:42 545mN
1...Kg4 2.Rh6 b5 3.Rh7 b4 4.Rg7+ Kf4 5.Rf7+ Kg3 6.Rg7+ Kf2 7.Rf7+ Ke3 8.Re7+ Kd3 9.Rh7 Ke4 10.Rh4+ Kf3 11.Rh7 b3 12.Rf7+ Ke4 13.Re7+ Kf5 14.Rh7 Kf4 15.Rh6 Ke4 16.Rh8 Kf3 17.Rf8+ Kg2 18.Rg8+ Kf2 19.Rf8+ Ke2 20.Re8+ Kd3 21.Rd8+ Ke3 22.Rh8 Ke4 23.Re8+ Kf3 24.Kxb3
-+ (-3.94) Depth: 29 00:03:25 710mN
1...Kg4 2.Rh6 b5 3.Rh7 Kg3 4.Rg7+ Kh3 5.Rh7+ Kg2 6.Rg7+ Kf2 7.Rf7+ Ke3 8.Rh7 Kf3 9.Rh8 Kg3 10.Rg8+ Kh4 11.Rh8+ Kg5 12.Ka2 Kf5 13.Rh5+ Ke6 14.Rh6+ Kd5 15.Rh5+ Kc4 16.Kb2 b4 17.Rh8 Kb5 18.Rh3 Kc6 19.Rh4 Kc5 20.Kc2 b3+ 21.Kb2 Kd5 22.Kxb3
-+ (-3.74) Depth: 30 01:03:50 15976mN
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- Posts: 2041
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:30 pm
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
Yes, but as I said "with GUI detection", the GUI will give that output, whether or not the engine uses Nalimovs.royb wrote:It turns out that Smaug (and other Glaurung derivatives) do NOT use TBs at all, so that's not a factor here.
Ted was probably abused by that, and if he apologizes very deeply, maybe we'll forgive him.
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- Posts: 536
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:53 am
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
Ah, I see. I use SCID which does not allow the GUI to read TBs, but I believe that is not the case with Ted.ernest wrote:Yes, but as I said "with GUI detection", the GUI will give that output, whether or not the engine uses Nalimovs.royb wrote:It turns out that Smaug (and other Glaurung derivatives) do NOT use TBs at all, so that's not a factor here.
Ted was probably abused by that, and if he apologizes very deeply, maybe we'll forgive him.
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- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
- Location: Acworth, GA
Re: Which engine sees a draw in this position ?
I don't believe the engines in my post use Tablebases. Maybe the GUI is the cause for the output. I will check. I was using the Chessbase 10 GUI.Eelco de Groot wrote:One possibility is that the Chessbase GUI takes over using tablebases, because it is already a 6 men position to start with. But that would mean that Ted has the 6 men tablebases installed for this position and he would have figured that out. I would be amazed if Glaurung or Smaug can see a draw here, without even 5 men tablebases used by the engine!
Regards, Eelco
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Ted Summers
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Ted Summers