Trusted testers wanted

[Volker Annuss]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

[bob]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

[Marc Lacrosse]

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Sorry Volker, but what you ask for is exactly the opposite of the most fundamental point of the GPL that Tord decided to apply for glaurung.
You simply cannot ask for such a promise.
_This_ is a breach of the GPL. The reason why you were allowed to have a look at Tord's code and base your modifications on it is precisely that _you_ "promised" not to add any restriction (be it a soft "promise") to the general use of your added code if you were to publish it.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

You are infringing the GPL when you ask for such a promise.
Either you keep your code for yourself or you publish it and you are not allowed to ask for any restriction on its use as your code itself is based on a GPL source.

Marc

[Eelco de Groot]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

Robert what you say is true but I don't think this is what Volker wants to do. At this point Volker is only asking for testers, for a private version. So as far as I can see this is allowed by the GPL, as long as Volker and no tester releases it or otherwise make any derived work from Glaurung available without following all the GPL conditions? A private version could be tested by the CCRL and CEGT, but just not released unless following all the conditions of the GPL. Any free release or commercial version would have to include the source and licence, but I don't see a reason for Volker at this point to also provide this source code to the testers now. Should any of the testers make an executable public that they received from Volker, they would be in breach of of the GPL.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

This part of Volkers'post I think won't hold up in court, the GPL overrides any such promise because it goes against the spirit of the GPL. If that is also what Robert and Marc are saying I agree with them.

Regards, Eelco

[bob]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

Robert what you say is true but I don't think this is what Volker wants to do. At this point Volker is only asking for testers, for a private version. So as far as I can see this is allowed by the GPL, as long as Volker and no tester releases it or otherwise make any derived work from Glaurung available without following all the GPL conditions? A private version could be tested by the CCRL and CEGT, but just not released unless following all the conditions of the GPL. Any free release or commercial version would have to include the source and licence, but I don't see a reason for Volker at this point to also provide this source code to the testers now. Should any of the testers make an executable public that they received from Volker, they would be in breach of of the GPL.

According to the GPL, _any_ distribution of a program, even done privately, must conform to the GPL. You can take a GPL program and modify it all you want, but you can not give it to a single soul unless you comply with the GPL, which means if you give it to one, you give it to all, and you can't hide the source or not release it.

The GPL really is a pretty straightforward and legally binding document that has to be followed. The main issue here is that he can not take a GPL program and then modify it and release it only to selected people. That is clearly not allowed.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

This part of Volkers'post I think won't hold up in court, the GPL overrides any such promise because it goes against the spirit of the GPL. If that is also what Robert and Marc are saying I agree with them.

Regards, Eelco

[Sean Evans]

http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resource ... guide.html

[Ryan Benitez]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

Robert what you say is true but I don't think this is what Volker wants to do. At this point Volker is only asking for testers, for a private version. So as far as I can see this is allowed by the GPL, as long as Volker and no tester releases it or otherwise make any derived work from Glaurung available without following all the GPL conditions? A private version could be tested by the CCRL and CEGT, but just not released unless following all the conditions of the GPL. Any free release or commercial version would have to include the source and licence, but I don't see a reason for Volker at this point to also provide this source code to the testers now. Should any of the testers make an executable public that they received from Volker, they would be in breach of of the GPL.

According to the GPL, _any_ distribution of a program, even done privately, must conform to the GPL. You can take a GPL program and modify it all you want, but you can not give it to a single soul unless you comply with the GPL, which means if you give it to one, you give it to all, and you can't hide the source or not release it.

The GPL really is a pretty straightforward and legally binding document that has to be followed. The main issue here is that he can not take a GPL program and then modify it and release it only to selected people. That is clearly not allowed.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

This part of Volkers'post I think won't hold up in court, the GPL overrides any such promise because it goes against the spirit of the GPL. If that is also what Robert and Marc are saying I agree with them.

Regards, Eelco

It sounds to me like he is sending source code with the engine. As far as I know the GPL does not force you must distribute to all. It would be ridiculous to demand every Toga based engine release to everyone every test beta that is sent out. It is possible that I am missing something here but I do not see the GPL violation.

[Eizenhammer]

I don't understand. If Tord gets your change and it is an improvement, it will be public. Then all your (strange) conditioning is about nothing. But of course I miss the point?!

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is another glaurung clone (pardon, derived work).

It is based on Glaurung 2.2 by Tord Romstad and modified by Volker Annuss without looking at any Glaurung modification.

I don't want to find my source code in clones, so the only way to recieve a copy from me is to promise not to give a copy to anyone but Tord Romstad.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

Changes
- Timing using Neural Networks
- Simplification (Bugfix?) in LMR
- Bugfix in move ordering

Expect it to be 5 or 10 ELO stronger than Glaurung 2.2.

If you want to get a copy, please send an e-mail to glaurungclone [ät] nnuss DOT de.

I will send copies to trusted testers only.
If you don't get a copy, no reason will be given. This does not necessary mean, that I don't trust you.

Greetings
Volker

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

Robert what you say is true but I don't think this is what Volker wants to do. At this point Volker is only asking for testers, for a private version. So as far as I can see this is allowed by the GPL, as long as Volker and no tester releases it or otherwise make any derived work from Glaurung available without following all the GPL conditions? A private version could be tested by the CCRL and CEGT, but just not released unless following all the conditions of the GPL. Any free release or commercial version would have to include the source and licence, but I don't see a reason for Volker at this point to also provide this source code to the testers now. Should any of the testers make an executable public that they received from Volker, they would be in breach of of the GPL.

According to the GPL, _any_ distribution of a program, even done privately, must conform to the GPL. You can take a GPL program and modify it all you want, but you can not give it to a single soul unless you comply with the GPL, which means if you give it to one, you give it to all, and you can't hide the source or not release it.

The GPL really is a pretty straightforward and legally binding document that has to be followed. The main issue here is that he can not take a GPL program and then modify it and release it only to selected people. That is clearly not allowed.

Glaurung 2.2 NNT is distributed as source code only. Of course you recieve all the rights the GPL V3 (the original Glaurung license) gives you. This includes the right to modify it and give copies away. But remember, you recieved it by promising not to make use of this right and the GPL does not force you to do so.

This part of Volkers'post I think won't hold up in court, the GPL overrides any such promise because it goes against the spirit of the GPL. If that is also what Robert and Marc are saying I agree with them.

Regards, Eelco

It sounds to me like he is sending source code with the engine. As far as I know the GPL does not force you must distribute to all. It would be ridiculous to demand every Toga based engine release to everyone every test beta that is sent out. It is possible that I am missing something here but I do not see the GPL violation.

I am in no means a GPL specialist but I think that you're absolutely right regarding the Toga's case....there are tons of private versions of Toga cerculating the computer chess community and I don't think that this is a violation to the GPL....
I am testing now a private DeepLearningToga which I recieved with the source code....Am I violating the GPL....don't think so....
Dr.D

[Tord Romstad]

Sorry, but you simply can not do this. A GPL program is GPL. Only the author can change that. You can not release a modified version and restrict it to be something less than GPL. You should read the GPL to see why.

I am not a lawyer, but my opinion is that Volker is clearly allowed to do what he describes. He states clearly that the program he sends to testers will be GPL licensed. At the same time, he wants the testers to give him a personal promise that they will not distribute the program. From a legal point of view, the testers are completely free to distribute the program, and do anything else allowed by the GPL. Distributing the program would not be breaking the law, but just breaking a promise. It would not make them criminals, but merely assholes.

That's why Volker emphasizes that he is only interested in testers he knows he can trust. He knows they will not be legally bound by their promise, so he needs someone trustable.

Tord