Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:I was going to stop posting about the whole matter, but these two posts are too nice to resist
Didn't Hiarcs finish just half a point behind 2nd position ?
That is not what I call 5th.
Complete the sequence:
1 2 3 4 ?
Harvey Williamson wrote:
Thaks Matthias - you pointing this out makes me think it is worth entering these tournaments and not hiding like, some, other top engines do.
At least we sent a team member and did not rely on 3 different operators to make this possible. I guess you saved a lot of money by not coming - we paid 502 euros to enter + flights Hotel and car hire. How much did it cost you to enter?
Why does this matter? Does he who spends the most deserve to win the most? Based on that logic I would be interested in entering as it would cost a small fortune to attend from Birmingham, AL.
Or one can participate in the internet tournaments and give up on the WCCC as I have done, due to time/expense.
michiguel wrote:
Please do not complain about costs when the rest of the planet need to cross one or two oceans to participate.
Miguel
You mean like when I went to China last year? Instead of complaining help find a sponsor wherever you are - I will be there.
I am not complaining, you are.
Count your blessings that you often have a WCCC at a short distance.
Miguel
Would you turn up if it was within a 1000 miles of you? I was not complaining I was just pointing out GCP had 3 operators and paid very little to make that happen. just the goodwill of 3 people who like him and his engine.
We had ACM tournaments annually from 1970 to 1995. I started participating in 1976 and may have missed one or two when we also had a WCCC event the same year. We had them all over the US, from Washington state, to southern california, to south florida, to the northeast including NYC, Cape May NJ, and everywhere in between. But the events lasted 3-4 days max, not over a week. Not at exotic locations where travel costs a fortune as does room and board.
Nid Hogge wrote:Congratulations. 3/3. Crippled, Blitz, Unlimited. The pathetic decision proved.. Meaningless. Nice try tough. Maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board? You know, focus more on engine development instead of trying to cripple out your nemesis. It's called sportsmanship, right? more fun for everyone, trust me.
In the end, what did this little experiment prove? That you can limit a Bugatti to use only 8 of it's 16 cylinders, It's still gonna be a $hitload better than a HYUNDAIRCS.
GJ.
IMHO it did not prove meaningless - it proved that Rybka was the best. For next year I support a similar rule or uniform hardware.
Why not weed out _all_ innovation and just get everyone together, and of the group that is present, award the title to the one that is highest on the CCRL published immediately prior to the "tournament"???
Uniform platform has been tried, found wanting, and it died the unseemly death it so richly deserved. Computer chess is about diversity and innovation, not vanilla one-size-fits-all nonsense.
Harvey Williamson wrote:.............,<snip>. I think it is a mistake to be active in this community. Along with the Rybka team we are the only other major engine that is always active in the forums, this may not be the best way. Perhaps we should only post when we have won something or have some news. I will have to think about this - as some only want to find the bad in everything.
Well, when controversy surrounds you on many occasion and this is only one of many, I think you have to look at yourself, look at your conduct, look how it and your writings are interpreted, and learn from it. So this may be the best way for Hiarcs. Stefan for example wisely stays away.
there is just controversy in internet forums,i thought you knew that
Best
Fonzy
Harvey Williamson wrote:I will do a Chris W and not post on any forums except Hiarcs for 2 weeks. Perhaps I will also vanish like he did after making that statement.
Harvey,
do you understand the german word "Hassliebe" ?
It is a type of affection which resembles hatred.
Even those who seem to be at loggerheads with you appreciate every post you make here.
Spock wrote:
Well, when controversy surrounds you on many occasion and this is only one of many, I think you have to look at yourself, look at your conduct, look how it and your writings are interpreted, and learn from it. So this may be the best way for Hiarcs. Stefan for example wisely stays away.
I do not recall that you were there.
I was.
I shared most of my conscious moments the last 10 days with Harvey, Hans (vd Zijden) and Johan (de Koning) as we shared the same tournament, hotel and most meals. I could not have done that if his conduct would have been unfair or negative in any way.
Please cease your personal attacks.
Richard.
Nid Hogge wrote:Congratulations. 3/3. Crippled, Blitz, Unlimited. The pathetic decision proved.. Meaningless. Nice try tough. Maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board? You know, focus more on engine development instead of trying to cripple out your nemesis. It's called sportsmanship, right? more fun for everyone, trust me.
In the end, what did this little experiment prove? That you can limit a Bugatti to use only 8 of it's 16 cylinders, It's still gonna be a $hitload better than a HYUNDAIRCS.
GJ.
I think this is a bit too harsh on Harvey's side....
I don't like either the hardware limitation stupidity,but this doesn't mean to jump all over the guy and harsh him like that....
Dr.D
Wasn't the core limit decision already a little harsh by itself?
You know, I'd really wouldn't say any of these things If Harvey would just step forward like a real man and say "Congratulations Guys". But what happens instead? He's being sore. Ugh.
There comes a point when you need to let go of all the nonsense. Just recognize that you wer'e outplayed and say 'grats guys, see you next year. Gee'z, It's just Computer Chess wer'e dealing with here, Why all the drama? the purpose is to have fun and watch quality chess, not delve into these semantic issues and the boring aftermath.
Analyze your games, study what went wront, try to improve, come back next year. Simple.
I don't have any problem with Harvey. I've got problem with the way. The way things are being layed out. It's about basic respect, nothing complicated. I understand the frustration about Rybka dominance. But really, just move on and stop being fretful. Come up with better ways to compete, instead of turning back time and blocking innovation.
Aye?
Yeah,I can understand you now Nid....my post was not intended to offence you by the way....
All I want to say is that Harvey has the full freedom to or not to comment regarding the hardware limitation issue....
Things had shown up,next year we hope to see the changes....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Steve B wrote:seems to me Ray that all too often whenever we get commercial programmers and their team members to post here they are showered with controversy and personal attack
cannot the same be said of Vaslich and Rybka who hardly ever posts here anymore
Sandro Necchi of Shredder stopped posting here for the same reasons
Harvey has stated repeatedly now ..here and on other forums that he only SUPPORTED the decision to go with a hardware limit ..the problem he now faces it seems is that he openly stated that support in live forums while others who have also supported the decision remained silent so he is now the subject of ridicule and open attack while they are not it is OK to attack an idea but not OK to attack a person
Best Regards
Steve
Hell true....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
bob wrote:Uniform platform has been tried, found wanting, and it died the unseemly death it so richly deserved. Computer chess is about diversity and innovation, not vanilla one-size-fits-all nonsense.
Actually, uniform platforms have a well-deserved place in rating lists. But I agree that championship tournaments should be open hardware. Hopefully this year's experiment showed that hardware limits alone are not sufficient to 1) attract new blood nor 2) handicap Rybka.
I am starting to wonder whether an invitational format would be more satisfactory for a world championship. There are a number of contenders for the crown who have not shown up for the event recently: Naum, Fritz, Glaurung, Fruit, and Zappa spring to mind.
