WCCC 2009

[bob]

In most sports there is THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, and then a bunch of things with qualifiers (under 18 world championship, special olympics gold medal, whatever). We have 1 qualifier, "Computer", implying the computer must make all decisions unaided. As many people here say, it is unusual, misleading, and just plain wrong to call something a computer world championship with no other qualifiers, and then put lots of qualifiers. If they want hardware restrictions so that the only computers that can be used are home computers (such as 8 core restriction) they can call it the micro-computer championships.

It is a sad, sad thing for computer chess in my opinion if there is no true world computer championship though (where there are no restrictions other than all decisions must be made by the computer program). I also consider it somewhat ironic that the rational is to make it accessible to the masses, when the only x-world champion chess computer the masses know is "Deep Blue", which would be banned from this event, and probably would never have been developed if such restrictions had always been in place. Who knows what wonderful advances in computer chess will be missed by having no completive outlet spurring on advances in highly parallel chess computation.

-Sam

Where do you think computer chess would be today without chess 4.x, belle, hitech, deep thought/deep blue, etc? Those programs, plus others like later Slate versions, Cray Blitz, LaChex, Cube, Chaos, Awit, - the list goes on and on, created the public interest that kept interest alive. Now we have some that want to limit the hardware in some form or another so that everyone can have such a machine. Makes no sense.

[Michael Sherwin]

In boxing there is a world champion for every weight category. So, chess should do something similar.

a cluster world champion

a multi core world champion

a single core world champion

an atom world champion

whatever.

and they would not all have to be run by the same organization.

enter all that you wish and hope that Rybka does not show up at one of them.

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

With that many classes, as few participants as the WCCC attracts, you would end up with 1 or 2 programs in each class. That would hardly be interesting. We want to produce a good "show" with "the best player in the world" being the one that wins. No-holds-barred cage-match type of event... Or a UFC-type event. No "queen's rules" or anything.

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

"However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???"

But, not necessarily the most skilled!

[MattieShoes]

In boxing there is a world champion for every weight category. So, chess should do something similar.

a cluster world champion

a multi core world champion

a single core world champion

an atom world champion

whatever.

and they would not all have to be run by the same organization.

enter all that you wish and hope that Rybka does not show up at one of them.

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

With that many classes, as few participants as the WCCC attracts, you would end up with 1 or 2 programs in each class. That would hardly be interesting. We want to produce a good "show" with "the best player in the world" being the one that wins. No-holds-barred cage-match type of event... Or a UFC-type event. No "queen's rules" or anything.

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

"However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???"

But, not necessarily the most skilled!

I think, given the small group already, it'd make more sense to make a single, unlimited tournament. The winner is WC, but if you wish to find the best single core entry, remove all non-single-core entries from the list. Just have to have some provision to avoid having related entries playing each other (ie. no single core rybka vs cluster rybka).

[Michael Sherwin]

In boxing there is a world champion for every weight category. So, chess should do something similar.

a cluster world champion

a multi core world champion

a single core world champion

an atom world champion

whatever.

and they would not all have to be run by the same organization.

enter all that you wish and hope that Rybka does not show up at one of them.

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

With that many classes, as few participants as the WCCC attracts, you would end up with 1 or 2 programs in each class. That would hardly be interesting. We want to produce a good "show" with "the best player in the world" being the one that wins. No-holds-barred cage-match type of event... Or a UFC-type event. No "queen's rules" or anything.

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

"However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???"

But, not necessarily the most skilled!

I think, given the small group already, it'd make more sense to make a single, unlimited tournament. The winner is WC, but if you wish to find the best single core entry, remove all non-single-core entries from the list. Just have to have some provision to avoid having related entries playing each other (ie. no single core rybka vs cluster rybka).

What if the second place single core engine played more games against the monsters, because, it did better at the beginning?

If I am still alive when I get my inheritance I plan on sponsoring an Atomic World Chess Championship with substantial cash prizes! Then we will see just how little interest there is!

[tano-urayoan]

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

I disagree, the 2 best boxers right now are Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Maywather none is near weighting 200 pounds.

[bob]

In boxing there is a world champion for every weight category. So, chess should do something similar.

a cluster world champion

a multi core world champion

a single core world champion

an atom world champion

whatever.

and they would not all have to be run by the same organization.

enter all that you wish and hope that Rybka does not show up at one of them.

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

With that many classes, as few participants as the WCCC attracts, you would end up with 1 or 2 programs in each class. That would hardly be interesting. We want to produce a good "show" with "the best player in the world" being the one that wins. No-holds-barred cage-match type of event... Or a UFC-type event. No "queen's rules" or anything.

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

"However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???"

But, not necessarily the most skilled!

If you don't aspire to be the best there is, there is little point in starting down this road in the first place. Who needs another weak program?

We used to have a uniform platform chess championship each year. It died due to lack of interest by the programmers. We _can_ learn from past history. Of course we don't _have_ to (see ICGA decisions). But we _should_.

[bob]

However, who would disagree with this: "The world heavyweight is the bext boxer in the world"???

I disagree, the 2 best boxers right now are Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Maywather none is near weighting 200 pounds.

We will just have to disagree. The 200+ pound heavyweights are going to wear out smaller boxers, whether they have more skill or not is irrelevant for the most part.

[tano-urayoan]

We will just have to disagree. The 200+ pound heavyweights are going to wear out smaller boxers, whether they have more skill or not is irrelevant for the most part.

You got me sir, but who is the best when different classes exists? No boxing analyst will put right now a heavyweight in the mythical list of best pound for pound.

Relate to earlier ultimate fighting where grable expert Royce Gracie will embarass much heavier and stronger fighters, if the heavyweight could not land a punch....

[Bo Persson]

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

But it is not that the "monster hardware" is extremely expensive or anything. Look at this 4 core 64 bit machine:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/ ... oxps-435mt

Investing $799 is not something that should stop a potential world champion, is it?

[Michael Sherwin]

If there were a 32 bit single core world championship then I think that the attendance would be much higher. And I think that the interest would be there to write new versions or even whole new programs. Why would I want my single threaded program to ever go up against ...--David and Goliath is a nice story. I am not interested in winning by luck and I haven't the goal of showing off by doing well with a single threaded engine against multiprocessor monsters. When I have some time to work on a new engine then I hope also to have a muliprocessor monster. Then maybe you will see me at the overall chess world championship.

But it is not that the "monster hardware" is extremely expensive or anything. Look at this 4 core 64 bit machine:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/ ... oxps-435mt

Investing $799 is not something that should stop a potential world champion, is it?

Baby tigers are soft and cuddly!

There is also the issue of having the time to conceive, write and debug a multi core utilizing algorithm.

A few years ago there was a story about a man along with his family that went into an African animal preserve. The man, against a horrified protest from his family, got out of his vehicle to film the lions. He was eaten!

I personally prefer going to the petting zoo.