Pawn Test

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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lmader
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Sonora, Mexico

Re: Pawn Test

Post by lmader »

Spock wrote:
lmader wrote:I think playing Nd2 first definitely looks better.
Deep Shredder 11 disagrees, with a clear jump in evaluation for f6, although it took over 11 hours on a quad to come to that conclusion
Wow. That's very cool.
"The foundation of morality is to have done, once for all, with lying; to give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibilities of knowledge." - T. H. Huxley
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AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Re: Pawn Test

Post by AdminX »

It takes Bright a little under 1 hour.

Analysis by bright-0.4a3:

1.Qd3 Rc8 2.Rac1 d5 3.Nd2 Qa2 4.Qb3
= (-0.10) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 29kN
= (-0.25) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 67kN

1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nc4 Nc6 8.Qd5 Ne7 9.Qd2 Nc6 10.Rd1 Nd4 11.Qxb4 Nxc2 12.Qa5 Nd4 13.Qxa6 Nxf5
= (-0.24) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 77kN
+/- (0.71) Depth: 23/70 00:14:39 3097mN

1.f6 gxf6 2.Bh6 Qxe4 3.Rf3 Kh8 4.Bxf8 Bxf8 5.Rxf6 Qc4 6.Rc1 Be7 7.Rf5 Qe6 8.Qd3 e4 9.Qd4+ f6 10.Rcf1 Nc6 11.Qb6 Qc4 12.Nd2 Qxc2 13.Qxa6
+/- (1.29) Depth: 23/76 00:54:22 4097mN
+/- (1.29) Depth: 23/76 00:54:22 4097mN
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Spock

Re: Pawn Test

Post by Spock »

You must have some big hardware there Dann

Here on the Q6600 at 3.0Ghz, it took Rybka 3 MP x64 nearly 15 hours and until depth 28 to see it.

13.01 0:01 +0.80 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nc4 Nc6 8.Qd5 Ne7 9.Qd2 Nxf5 10.Nxe5 (311.947) 202
14.01 0:02 +0.80 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nc4 Nc6 8.Qd5 Ne7 9.Qd2 Nxf5 10.Nxe5 Rc7 11.Nd3 Qh6 12.Qf2 Ne3 13.Nxb4 Rc4 14.c3 (549.108) 219
15.01 0:08 +0.95 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qd8 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 (1.934.215) 238
16.01 0:15 +0.96 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 (3.644.603) 245
17.01 0:30 +0.99 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.Qd3 Qd7 14.c3 (7.660.680) 257
18.01 1:03 +0.96 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.Qd3 Qd7 14.c3 (16.885.995) 274
19.01 2:06 +0.99 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.c3 Qb3 14.Qd3 (34.178.675) 277
20.01 4:30 +1.02 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 13.Qd3 Ra7 14.c3 (73.376.167) 278
21.01 6:00 +1.02 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 13.Qd3 Ra7 14.c3 (93.951.137) 266
22.01 17:25 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.Nd5 Rf7 13.g5 Nxa4 14.b3 (244.453.946) 239
23.01 19:23 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.Nd5 Rf7 13.g5 Nxa4 14.b3 (271.565.190) 238
24.01 34:02 +1.18 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.b3 h6 13.h4 Rg7 14.Qxf6 (488.874.453) 245
25.01 126:53 +1.24 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 a5 14.b3 (1.956.457.451) 263
26.01 142:23 +1.24 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 a5 14.b3 (2.175.360.154) 260
27.01 250:35 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 Rc8 14.h3 (3.880.285.809) 264
28.01 486:31 +1.21 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Nc6 10.Qf1 a5 11.Qb5 Rc8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Qb7 Qc7 14.Qxc7 (7.413.948.903) 260 TB:9
28.03 896:07 +1.39++ 1.f6 (12.607.239.240) 240 TB:9
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12542
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Pawn Test

Post by Dann Corbit »

Spock wrote:You must have some big hardware there Dann

Here on the Q6600 at 3.0Ghz, it took Rybka 3 MP x64 nearly 15 hours and until depth 28 to see it.

13.01 0:01 +0.80 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nc4 Nc6 8.Qd5 Ne7 9.Qd2 Nxf5 10.Nxe5 (311.947) 202
14.01 0:02 +0.80 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nc4 Nc6 8.Qd5 Ne7 9.Qd2 Nxf5 10.Nxe5 Rc7 11.Nd3 Qh6 12.Qf2 Ne3 13.Nxb4 Rc4 14.c3 (549.108) 219
15.01 0:08 +0.95 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qd8 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 (1.934.215) 238
16.01 0:15 +0.96 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 (3.644.603) 245
17.01 0:30 +0.99 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.Qd3 Qd7 14.c3 (7.660.680) 257
18.01 1:03 +0.96 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.Qd3 Qd7 14.c3 (16.885.995) 274
19.01 2:06 +0.99 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 Rc7 13.c3 Qb3 14.Qd3 (34.178.675) 277
20.01 4:30 +1.02 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 13.Qd3 Ra7 14.c3 (73.376.167) 278
21.01 6:00 +1.02 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 f5 5.exf5 Kh8 6.Ne4 Rg8 7.Nf6 Qd8 8.Nxg8 Qxg8 9.Qh5 f6 10.Qh4 Qf7 11.Qxb4 Nc6 12.Qe4 d5 13.Qd3 Ra7 14.c3 (93.951.137) 266
22.01 17:25 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.Nd5 Rf7 13.g5 Nxa4 14.b3 (244.453.946) 239
23.01 19:23 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.Nd5 Rf7 13.g5 Nxa4 14.b3 (271.565.190) 238
24.01 34:02 +1.18 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 a5 10.Rf1 Na6 11.g4 Nc5 12.b3 h6 13.h4 Rg7 14.Qxf6 (488.874.453) 245
25.01 126:53 +1.24 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 a5 14.b3 (1.956.457.451) 263
26.01 142:23 +1.24 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 a5 14.b3 (2.175.360.154) 260
27.01 250:35 +1.19 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Qh6 10.Re1 Nd7 11.Qe6 Qf8 12.Rf1 Nc5 13.Qd5 Rc8 14.h3 (3.880.285.809) 264
28.01 486:31 +1.21 1.Nd2 Qc8 2.f6 Bxf6 3.Rxf6 gxf6 4.Bh6 Kh8 5.Qf3 f5 6.Qxf5 f6 7.Bxf8 Qxf8 8.Nc4 Rc7 9.Ne3 Nc6 10.Qf1 a5 11.Qb5 Rc8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Qb7 Qc7 14.Qxc7 (7.413.948.903) 260 TB:9
28.03 896:07 +1.39++ 1.f6 (12.607.239.240) 240 TB:9
We note that it got found at ply 25 on my machine. Could be choice of hash table size (I used 1 GB or so, IIRC) or just the non-deterministic nature of SMP search. I may also have searched the position or a related position previously (I have hash pv saving option turned on). It may also have involved a deep tablebase hit.

I guess my hardware is about equivalent (4 CPUs, 3 GHz, 4 GB ram, 1 TB fast hard disk, 3,4,5, and most 6 man tablebase files).
Spock

Re: Pawn Test

Post by Spock »

Dann Corbit wrote: We note that it got found at ply 25 on my machine. Could be choice of hash table size (I used 1 GB or so, IIRC) or just the non-deterministic nature of SMP search. I may also have searched the position or a related position previously (I have hash pv saving option turned on). It may also have involved a deep tablebase hit.

I guess my hardware is about equivalent (4 CPUs, 3 GHz, 4 GB ram, 1 TB fast hard disk, 3,4,5, and most 6 man tablebase files).
I used 1GB hash also coincidentally, but I only have 5-men tablebases
Could be that the 6-men tablebases were the key here.