CCC/CTF v Hiarcs Headbangers Game 1 (25/07/2009)

[playjunior]

Even if we need a referee or a team of referees who enforces the rules, I don't see why they have to have access to the secret threads. After all, what matters is the what we post as a move, not how we come to it.

No disrespect to Steve or Graham indeed, I am merely against the concept, which seems like needless bureaucracy.

[Steve B]

the purpose of a neutral party is observe both forums and insure that no one is posting analysis from one forum to the next
a player could copy analysis from one forum and post it as his own on the other forum or just post it to cause havoc
a neutral was used in both games when the Rybka Team played the Hteam
i am not creating something new here Chris
all of the mods on Rybka and the Rybka Hiarcs Team Cptains understood the need for a neutral and everyone involved agreed to it
reconsider this issue and suggest a neutral

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Steve

I doubt the analysis matters that much if both teams use chess engines.....

An engine is......an engine.

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Our secret threat (!?) is elsewhere already. We have the ability to invite people instantaneously there. It is much more flexible that way. We model ourselves on the Hiarcs model of "transparency".

A better way is to get Hiarcs to show who is in their team and we would do the same.

That would negate the need to observe anything as then you would know who is in each others team.

players can use different log in names for different forums
posting the same exact analysis on one forum to the next is ridiculous
the fact that you already created a secret thread off site does not answer MY question as to why you did not first attempt to do it here?
Steve

[Henrik Dinesen]

If you and the team members have an issue with me as a neutral party then that is OK with me
i have not been a moderator on the Hforum for over a year now and i was only a moderator during their first year of operation

but i am an elected moderator here and my goal was only to bring both teams together

Suggest another neutral party
again if Graham will accept he should be agreeable to the Hteam

i also think you could have asked the TCADMIN to create a secret forum HERE so that our CCC/CTF members could choose to join and watch the analysis..rather then sending out private emails to hold the forum elsewhere

Steve

I am happy to help out if required and if both teams are agreeable.

Well Graham, you sure have my vote and confidence.
As a sidepart Steve, your neutrality wasn't and isn't argumented by me.

I agree with Chris, that even though the game is supposed to be fun overall, it's nice with a hidden spot to debate the moves and the course of the game. HH has that, we should too, though it's clear we're far less "members" and a part of the joy for me is the public vote etc.

Chris provided such a spot, all the sudden. Fine by me, as long as the obeserver has access too, as well as to the similar place of HH. It's only about even team conditions to me.

In other words, we were on the right track with everything, except maybe we didn't talk about it first.

That's my view in short.

Best,

[Henrik Dinesen]

the purpose of a neutral party is observe both forums and insure that no one is posting analysis from one forum to the next
a player could copy analysis from one forum and post it as his own on the other forum or just post it to cause havoc
a neutral was used in both games when the Rybka Team played the Hteam
i am not creating something new here Chris
all of the mods on Rybka and the Rybka Hiarcs Team Cptains understood the need for a neutral and everyone involved agreed to it
reconsider this issue and suggest a neutral

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Steve

I doubt the analysis matters that much if both teams use chess engines.....

An engine is......an engine.

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Our secret threat (!?) is elsewhere already. We have the ability to invite people instantaneously there. It is much more flexible that way. We model ourselves on the Hiarcs model of "transparency".

A better way is to get Hiarcs to show who is in their team and we would do the same.

That would negate the need to observe anything as then you would know who is in each others team.

I can't see why the teams should consist of secret members either.
And yes, when a quick invite is all it takes to make people join, it seems fine to me. After all most is still done in public here, I guess

[Christopher Conkie]

the purpose of a neutral party is observe both forums and insure that no one is posting analysis from one forum to the next
a player could copy analysis from one forum and post it as his own on the other forum or just post it to cause havoc
a neutral was used in both games when the Rybka Team played the Hteam
i am not creating something new here Chris
all of the mods on Rybka and the Rybka Hiarcs Team Cptains understood the need for a neutral and everyone involved agreed to it
reconsider this issue and suggest a neutral

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Steve

I doubt the analysis matters that much if both teams use chess engines.....

An engine is......an engine.

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Our secret threat (!?) is elsewhere already. We have the ability to invite people instantaneously there. It is much more flexible that way. We model ourselves on the Hiarcs model of "transparency".

A better way is to get Hiarcs to show who is in their team and we would do the same.

That would negate the need to observe anything as then you would know who is in each others team.

players can use different log in names for different forums
posting the same exact analysis on one forum to the next is ridiculous
the fact that you already created a secret thread off site does not answer MY question as to why you did not first attempt to do it here?
Steve

Does it matter where it is? It seems it does.........to you......

I know who is in our team and I trust them. Are you saying I should not trust them?



I would not wish the work on Sam who is probably very busy. Also I doubt he would be around enough to included those who wanted to contribute to the fine analysis on an instant basis which is what we would require.

[Steve B]

the purpose of a neutral party is observe both forums and insure that no one is posting analysis from one forum to the next
a player could copy analysis from one forum and post it as his own on the other forum or just post it to cause havoc
a neutral was used in both games when the Rybka Team played the Hteam
i am not creating something new here Chris
all of the mods on Rybka and the Rybka Hiarcs Team Cptains understood the need for a neutral and everyone involved agreed to it
reconsider this issue and suggest a neutral

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Steve

I doubt the analysis matters that much if both teams use chess engines.....

An engine is......an engine.

why did you not attempt to create a secret threat here?

Our secret threat (!?) is elsewhere already. We have the ability to invite people instantaneously there. It is much more flexible that way. We model ourselves on the Hiarcs model of "transparency".

A better way is to get Hiarcs to show who is in their team and we would do the same.

That would negate the need to observe anything as then you would know who is in each others team.

players can use different log in names for different forums
posting the same exact analysis on one forum to the next is ridiculous
the fact that you already created a secret thread off site does not answer MY question as to why you did not first attempt to do it here?
Steve

Does it matter where it is? It seems it does.........to you......

I know who is in our team and I trust them. Are you saying I should not trust them?



I would not wish the work on Sam who is probably very busy. Also I doubt he would be around enough to included those who wanted to contribute to the fine analysis on an instant basis which is what we would require.

did you even ask Sam?
i am sure he could reply on his own if you did ..rather then assume he would be too busy and then start suddenly sending out private emails to hold it elsewhere
it does matter to me where the secret thread is held
i think it should be held here for the CCC/CTF members to see rather then having to join another chess forum web site
the analysis is the most interesting part of the game
seems to me its you who does not trust people Chris
not me
Steve

[Christopher Conkie]

did you even ask Sam?
i am sure he could reply on his own if you did ..rather then assume he would be too busy and then start suddenly sending out private emails to hold it elsewhere
it does matter to me where the secret thread is held
i think it should be held here for the CCC/CTF members to see rather then having to join another chess forum web site
the analysis is the most interesting part of the game
seems to me its you who does not trust people Chris
not me
Steve

Do you think I should? I do you know. I trust the people who were interested. I know next to nothing about them but I know they were interested. I would call that very trusting......

the analysis is the most interesting part of the game

And where will we see the Hiarcs analysis? Or is that not very interesting.....

I am a member of the Hiarcs forum. I can't see their analysis. It is....hidden.

Why would I need to ask Sam when I can do it myself much easier?

[Steve B]

did you even ask Sam?
i am sure he could reply on his own if you did ..rather then assume he would be too busy and then start suddenly sending out private emails to hold it elsewhere
it does matter to me where the secret thread is held
i think it should be held here for the CCC/CTF members to see rather then having to join another chess forum web site
the analysis is the most interesting part of the game
seems to me its you who does not trust people Chris
not me
Steve

Do you think I should? I do you know. I trust the people who were interested. I know next to nothing about them but I know they were interested. I would call that very trusting......

the analysis is the most interesting part of the game

And where will we see the Hiarcs analysis? Or is that not very interesting.....

I am a member of the Hiarcs forum. I can't see their analysis. It is....hidden.

Why would I need to ask Sam when I can do it myself much easier?

so you did not ask Sam
asking Sam would have fulfilled the intended goal of having the game to be enjoyed by our members ..here
the more analysis the members here can see perhaps the more will join
i have sent alot of time trying to get this of the ground only to have you basically spirit the game away to another forum

again..a Neutral party was understood as necessary by everyone involved in the Rybka Hteam games
i am sorry if you do not understand the need to have the analysis here on the CCC
i am sorry you did not ask Sam to keep the thread here and instead decided on your own to bring the thread elsewhere -off site
i am sorry you do not accept/understand the idea of a neutral observer although it has been explained to you

its up to the Hteam Captains to play the match given you have now changed the challenged and accepted terms
my part in this is over
you can have the last word because as far as i can see we are talking in circles
Steve

[Christopher Conkie]

because this was supposed to be a game to be enjoyed by our members ..here

Read AGAIN the first post in this thread.

the more analysis the members here can see perhaps the more will join
i have sent alot of time trying to get this of the ground only to have you basically spirit the game away to anther froum

Read AGAIN the first post in this thread.

again..a Neutral party wase understood as neccssary by everyone invloved in the Rybka Hteam games
i am sorry if you do not understand the need
i am sorry you did not ask Sam to keep the thread here and instead decided on your own to bring the thread elsewhere -off site
i am sorry you do not accept/unserstand the idea of a neutral obsever

The thread will be here. The analysis of the core team members will be hidden. What they say or anyone else says about their analysis here is up to them.

its up to the Hteam Captains to play the match given you have now changed the challenged and accepted terms
my part in this is over

We have not changed anything. We did what they are doing already.

[Steve B]

because this was supposed to be a game to be enjoyed by our members ..here

Read AGAIN the first post in this thread.

the more analysis the members here can see perhaps the more will join
i have sent alot of time trying to get this of the ground only to have you basically spirit the game away to anther froum

Read AGAIN the first post in this thread.

again..a Neutral party wase understood as neccssary by everyone invloved in the Rybka Hteam games
i am sorry if you do not understand the need
i am sorry you did not ask Sam to keep the thread here and instead decided on your own to bring the thread elsewhere -off site
i am sorry you do not accept/unserstand the idea of a neutral obsever

The thread will be here. The analysis of the core team members will be hidden. What they say or anyone else says about there analysis here is up to them.

its up to the Hteam Captains to play the match given you have now changed the challenged and accepted terms
my part in this is over

We have not changed anything. We did what they are doing.

the issue about changing the accepted terms is ONLY the Neutral party
it was mentioned in the initial challenge and accepted
the question i have about why you are holding the secret thread off site is a question i personally have .. it is not a question pertaining to the match itself
Steve