WCRCC 2009

[jdart]

I'm sorry I missed it - I was on vacation. As you know I tried to get an operator to stand in for me but was not successful.

Looks like the PGNs are still not on the result page - I get an error clicking on the download link.

If you are still looking for Crafty-TwistedLogic, I assume it is this game:

[Event "ICC tourney 1010 (25 4 u)"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2009.08.15"]
[Round "5"]
[White "crafty"]
[Black "TwistedLogicCCT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ICCResult "Black checkmated"]
[WhiteElo "2683"]
[BlackElo "2829"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[ECO "B50"]
[NIC "SI.01"]
[Time "13:30:25"]
[TimeControl "1500+4"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c3 Nf6 4. h3 Nc6 5. Bd3 g6 6. Bc2 Bg7 7. O-O O-O 8. d4
b6 9. d5 Na5 10. Na3 Ba6 11. Re1 Qd7 12. Bg5 h6 13. Be3 Rfc8 14. Qd2 g5 15.
h4 Ng4 16. hxg5 hxg5 17. Nxg5 Ne5 18. f4 Ng4 19. Qd1 Nc4 20. Nxc4 Bxc4 21.
Qf3 Rd8 22. b3 Bb5 23. e5 dxe5 24. Bh7+ Kh8 25. fxe5 Nh6 26. Nxf7+ Kxh7 27.
Bxh6 Qxd5 28. Qh5 Bc6 29. Re2 Be8 30. Bxg7+ Kxg7 31. Qh6+ Kg8 32. Qg6+ Kf8
33. e6 Qxe6 34. Rxe6 Rd1+ 35. Rxd1 Bxf7 36. Rf1 Ke8 37. Qxf7+ Kd7 38. Qxe7+
Kc8 39. Rf8# {Black checkmated} 1-0

[Paloma]

Looks like the PGNs are still not available. I get an error clicking on the download link - for more than a week.
It would be nice if they would be available soon.

[beachknight]

Looks like the PGNs are still not available. I get an error clicking on the download link - for more than a week.
It would be nice if they would be available soon.

I agree.

Best,

[beachknight]

Looks like the PGNs are still not available. I get an error clicking on the download link - for more than a week.
It would be nice if they would be available soon.

I agree.

Best,

Just clicked the link and downloaded the games.

Best,

[beachknight]

A better PGN file (with 130 games) is downloadable at:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ches ... ssage/3431

Best,

[hgm]

No engine scores in the PGN, though...

[Edsel Apostol]

No engine scores in the PGN, though...

No depth and time also. Next time maybe tournament organizers should require participants to send their PGN files so that it can be compiled with score , depth, and time information.

[Tord Romstad]

No engine scores in the PGN, though...

No depth and time also. Next time maybe tournament organizers should require participants to send their PGN files so that it can be compiled with score , depth, and time information.

That's not the right way. The server should provide commands for the programs to send scores, depths and PVs in a standardized format, and the tournament rules should require that all participating programs use these commands. The server could then easily produce beautiful PGN files with a consistent sign convention for scores, pretty-printed PVs in SAN notation, and so on.

Sending search information by kibitzing, as is done now, is horrible. There is no easy way for the server to guess whether a kibitz line is search output by a program or a comment from some observer, and this makes it very hard for the server to automatically create commented PGNs. The engine kibitz lines also add to the already extremely high noise level on the ICC (I still suffer from tinnitus after my 5 minute visit during the WCRCC last month). The kibitzes are not even very informative for the spectators, because all programs use their own format, and you can't even guess which scores are good for white and black.

The root of the problem is that the ICC is made for human play, not for computer vs computer tournaments. To make online tournaments more attractive, we need a server dedicated to automated computer chess, with a feature set designed for computer players. HGM's server with some additions to the source code would perhaps be a good option.

[hgm]

Well, it will be hard to get FICS or ICC to change their server software, or to get organizers to use my ICS even if I would adapt it to do this.

But WinBoard actually already has this functionality, provided that the participants kibitz in a standard format (which WinBoard also sends, if requested to do so). The organizers could easily demand from the participants they use such a standard format, wherever the tournament is held.

On a less computer-minded ICS, WinBoard could be used to follow / observe the tournament games, and it would automatically save PGN files with extended PGN info. Of course participants using WinBoard as an interface would automatically get such annotated PGN of their own games, including both their own and the opponent score/depth info.

[michiguel]

Well, it will be hard to get FICS or ICC to change their server software, or to get organizers to use my ICS even if I would adapt it to do this.

But WinBoard actually already has this functionality, provided that the participants kibitz in a standard format (which WinBoard also sends, if requested to do so). The organizers could easily demand from the participants they use such a standard format, wherever the tournament is held.

On a less computer-minded ICS, WinBoard could be used to follow / observe the tournament games, and it would automatically save PGN files with extended PGN info. Of course participants using WinBoard as an interface would automatically get such annotated PGN of their own games, including both their own and the opponent score/depth info.

Why not making this a feature of the protocol? For instance, an engine that wants to kibitz could send to winboard

kibinfo_reset
kibinto_score 120
kibinfo_ply 11
kibinfo_pv e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 a6 Ba4 Nf6 O-O b5 Bb5
kibinfo_nps 500000
kibinfo_send

and then winboard sends (kibitz or whisper) the info formatted in some sort of standardized way.
If the engines do not want, or can't send some info, that field will be blank and winboard can decide how to handle it. Knowing how an engine handles the scores, it could flip it etc if needed.

Miguel