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Michael Sherwin
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 2215 Location: OH, USA
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Post subject: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:33 am |
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I found a 64bit version of Ippolit and compared its play, node rate (adjusted), depth of search and other factors to Rybka232a32 (well that is the latest version that I have) and determined to the best of my ability that they are not even close to being the same.
Subjective first conclusion: not a clone
Based on what I have read about Ippolit's parameters, it is my experience as a programmer that if you take an engine based on soundness of play and make it more aggressive and do wild pruning to gain depth, etc, you end up with a weaker engine. Not a stronger one. Is Ippolit really so "poorly tuned" that it can be this strong.
Subjective second conclusion: not a clone
I scanned both Strelka's and Ippolit's source code. Assuming that Vas has not done a complete rewrite then I give the following opinion. Nothing is the same in the two sources. The data structures are different. The style is extremely different. The move generation is very different. The search functions are not in the style of Fruit/Strelka. The utility functions are very different. The two sources do not look like they are from the same planet let alone the same country!
Objective third opinion: not a clone
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I did this analysis quickly, so I could be wrong. But, I will be very surprised if I am.
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The dilemma is, now anyone wishing to be competitive at the highest level, has a new starting place or a moral reason to not even try. Why? What is the injury to the honest author? Well, simple. It is the fact that others will use this source to create even stronger engines in record time. So, even if Ippolit is a clone, that will not change this moral dilemma one darn bit. All engine authors have a right to compete with each other on equal ground. That ground has just become a lot higher.
There are those that do not want the ground to be elevated. That might be the true reason behind the attempt to squash this hippo in our backyard before it's noticed. _________________ Regards,
Mike |
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Date/Time |
Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Sherwin |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:33 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Graham Banks |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:22 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Bence Laundon |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:49 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
André van Ark |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:37 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Osipov Jury |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:43 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Vladimir Medvedev |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:58 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Sherwin |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:22 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Vladimir Medvedev |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:10 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Zach Wegner |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:44 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Graham Banks |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:29 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Evgenii Manev |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:49 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:02 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
M ANSARI |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:41 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:50 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Matthias Gemuh |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:59 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Marco Costalba |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:27 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Anton |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:42 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Marco Costalba |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:49 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Graham Banks |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:51 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?/A big family |
Ruxy Sylwyka |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:09 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Matthias Gemuh |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:25 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Vladimir Medvedev |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:43 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:39 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Vladimir Medvedev |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:49 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:57 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:25 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Richard Vida |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:57 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Diosi |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:05 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:35 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Diosi |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:53 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:44 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:10 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Henrik Dinesen |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:28 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:54 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:06 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:38 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Steve B |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:46 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Werner Schüle |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:35 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:51 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:11 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:18 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:22 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:27 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:33 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:44 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:03 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:09 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:15 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:18 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:25 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:31 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:38 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:43 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:34 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:45 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:50 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Leto Atreides |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:47 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Werner Schüle |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:59 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Gerd Isenberg |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:25 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Richard Sutherland |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:32 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Dann Corbit |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:02 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Richard Sutherland |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:07 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:14 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
kostas oreopoulos |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:10 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Gabor Szots |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:35 am |
Re: Any interest in my post ? IPP=Rybka 3 clone ! |
Ruxy Sylwyka |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:58 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Edsel Apostol |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:00 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Gian-Carlo Pascutto |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:20 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Matthias Gemuh |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:28 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Gian-Carlo Pascutto |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:31 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
M ANSARI |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:53 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Andranik Khachatryan |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:02 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Sherwin |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:04 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Andranik Khachatryan |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:15 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Eastendboy |
Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:08 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
kostas oreopoulos |
Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:57 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Leto Atreides |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:30 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Steve Maughan |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:54 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
George Tsavdaris |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:43 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Eelco de Groot |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:07 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Steve Maughan |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:15 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:15 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
George Tsavdaris |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:14 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
gerold daniels |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:18 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Richard Sutherland |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:26 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Eelco de Groot |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:02 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:28 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
George Tsavdaris |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:54 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:50 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
George Tsavdaris |
Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:00 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Andranik Khachatryan |
Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:59 am |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Jan Brouwer |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:27 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Marco Costalba |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:33 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Sergei Markoff |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:47 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Michael Sherwin |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:54 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Christopher Conkie |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:03 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
James Constance |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:10 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Gian-Carlo Pascutto |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:35 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
James Constance |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:35 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
George Tsavdaris |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:46 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Slobodan R Stojanovic |
Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:53 pm |
Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on? |
Alexander Schmidt |
Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:07 pm |
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