Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

[Edsel Apostol]

This is just my theory, I may be right and I may be wrong. Don't take this as a fact.

I think that it is not an exact clone. Meaning it is not an exact copy. There are parts that may be Rybka and there are parts that are not, more like a Frankenstein chess engine. I think it only has parts from Rybka, most probably the eval minus the material tables. I am not sure about the search though. I think that the search was improved resulting to it probably being better than Rybka 3.

Difference in eval may be explained by not using the Rybka material table (I might be wrong and Rybka 3 might not be using any tables at all), instead they use values something like that of Fruit.

By this differences in search and eval, the playing style could be different. It's like the same engine with just a different personality (some weights are different, some search parameters are different).

Based on their web page I think the one who did this wrote the original code in a Russian language using Russian alphabet, incorporating the ideas from the reverse engineered Rybka. Then they translate the code into the common alphabet (I don't know what our English alphabet is called) but still Russian. Then they translate the code to English through some translation tool or something. That's why the resulting code seems obscured but it can be easily understood by any good programmer.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

This is just my theory, I may be right and I may be wrong. Don't take this as a fact.

I think that it is not an exact clone. Meaning it is not an exact copy.

That should have been clear from the missing SMP, Monte Carlo, Sampled Search, EGTB support, Fruit hashtables, fixed nodecount and search depth, Persistent Hash, etc...

Just like Strelka, no work wasted reverse engineering the unneeded parts.

[Matthias Gemuh]

I don't know what our English alphabet is called

arabic ? or is it only numbers that are "arabic" ?

Strange because the arabic language does not even use the letters/numbers.

Matthias.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

I don't know what our English alphabet is called

arabic ? or is it only numbers that are "arabic" ?

Latin with arabic numbers, IIRC.

[Leto]

The cloners sent email to Vas telling him it was a clone.
Further, Vas examined it and found the assertion to be true.

What proof would you have him provide?

None of that is proof of a clone. All you are giving is Vas' word for any of that, and he has a vested interest in the program being branded as illegal. If this forum wants to take a stand, it should require more than just Vas' word.

Once more into the breach.....

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30245

How do you get the same values in Ippolit as in Rybka? Is it luck? I know which was first if that helps.

I am going to get my odds calculator out.

I won't be long. Brb.....

There is plenty like that in Ippolit btw.

Christopher

I don't understand this stuff at all. How could you compare that table to that of Rybka when you don't have the Rybka sources?

What I read here all the time is that Ippolit plays totally differently from Rybka and even programmers don't agree that it is a reverse engineered Rybka (some say it's a transcript of an engine from some language to C).

3rr1k1/pp3pbp/2p1b1p1/q3p2n/N1P1P3/1P2N2P/PBQ3B1/R3R1K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3 x64:

20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Qe7 22.Nxe6
+/= (0.53) Depth: 6 00:00:00 6kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Qe7 22.Nxe6
+/= (0.53) Depth: 7 00:00:00 7kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4
= (0.21) Depth: 8 00:00:00 28kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4
= (0.21) Depth: 9 00:00:00 37kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6 25.Ncd3
+/= (0.31) Depth: 10 00:00:00 66kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6 25.Ncd3
+/= (0.31) Depth: 11 00:00:00 100kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6 25.Ncd3 Ne6 26.Qd2 Nd4 27.Qg5
+/= (0.30) Depth: 12 00:00:01 208kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 Nf4 23.Nxf4 exf4 24.Bxg7
+/= (0.37) Depth: 13 00:00:07 760kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 Nf4 23.Nxf4 exf4 24.Bxg7
+/= (0.37) Depth: 14 00:00:08 892kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 Nf4 23.Nxf4 exf4 24.Bxg7 Kxg7 25.Ng4 Bxg4 26.hxg4 Qe5 27.Rad1 Rh8 28.Qf2 a6 29.Rf1 Rxd1 30.Rxd1 h5
+/= (0.47) Depth: 15 00:00:25 2518kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 Qe7 23.Ng4 Qg5
+/= (0.28) Depth: 16 00:01:50 10997kN

3rr1k1/pp3pbp/2p1b1p1/q3p2n/N1P1P3/1P2N2P/PBQ3B1/R3R1K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by IPPOLIT 0.080a x64:

20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Rad1 Bxh3 23.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 24.Kg2
+/= (0.52) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 4kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Rad1 Bxh3 23.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 24.Kg2
+/= (0.52) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 5kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Rad1 Bxh3 23.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 24.Kg2
Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 7kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Rad1 Red6 24.c5
+/= (0.61) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 8kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Rad1 Red6 24.c5
+/= (0.61) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 9kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Rad1 Red6 24.c5
+/= (0.61) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 11kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Rad1 Red6 24.c5
+/= (0.61) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 13kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Rad1 Red6 24.c5
Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 32kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6
+/= (0.50) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 39kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6
+/= (0.50) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 42kN
20.Bc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Rad1 Nf4 23.Ng4 h5 24.Nf2 b6
Depth: 10/25 00:00:00 81kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Qc2 Red6 24.Rad1 b6 25.c5 Rxd1 26.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 27.Nxd1
+/= (0.56) Depth: 10/28 00:00:00 185kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Qc2 Red6 24.Rad1 b6 25.c5 Rxd1 26.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 27.Nxd1
+/= (0.56) Depth: 10/28 00:00:00 185kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Qc2 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 26.Qxd1 Bf8 27.h4
Depth: 11/28 00:00:00 239kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.c5 b6 24.Bf1 Bf8 25.b4 Rd4 26.Ng4 bxc5 27.bxc5
+/= (0.45) Depth: 11/28 00:00:00 254kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.c5 b6 24.Bf1 Bf8 25.b4 Rd4 26.Ng4 bxc5 27.bxc5
+/= (0.45) Depth: 11/28 00:00:00 281kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Qc2 Bf8 24.Rad1 Bc5 25.Rxd8+ Qxd8 26.Kh1 Bxe3 27.Rxe3
+/= (0.43) Depth: 12/28 00:00:00 313kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Qc2 Bf8 24.Rad1 Bc5 25.Rxd8+ Qxd8 26.Kh1 Bxe3 27.Rxe3
+/= (0.43) Depth: 12/28 00:00:00 438kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.c5 b6 24.Bf1 Bf8 25.b4 Rd4 26.Ng4 bxc5 27.bxc5
Depth: 13/28 00:00:00 512kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1 26.Nxd1 Qd8 27.Ne3 Qh4 28.Ng4
+/= (0.52) Depth: 13/28 00:00:00 566kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1 26.Nxd1 Qd8 27.Ne3 Qh4 28.Ng4
+/= (0.52) Depth: 13/28 00:00:00 692kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1 26.Nxd1 Qd8 27.Ne3 Qh4 28.Ng4
+/= (0.52) Depth: 14/28 00:00:00 795kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1 26.Nxd1 Qd8 27.Ne3 Qh4 28.Ng4
+/= (0.52) Depth: 14/28 00:00:00 931kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Red6 24.Rad1 Rxd1 25.Rxd1 Rxd1 26.Nxd1 Qd8 27.Ne3 Qh4 28.Ng4
Depth: 15/34 00:00:01 1841kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.a3 Rd4 27.Nc4 axb4 28.axb4 Qg5+ 29.Kh2
+/= (0.53) Depth: 15/34 00:00:01 2085kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.a3 Rd4 27.Nc4 axb4 28.axb4 Qg5+ 29.Kh2
+/= (0.53) Depth: 15/34 00:00:01 2085kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.bxa5 Qxc5 27.Rad1 Qe7 28.Ng4 Bg7 29.a6 Rxd1 30.Rxd1 bxa6
+/= (0.55) Depth: 16/37 00:00:02 4957kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.bxa5 Qxc5 27.Rad1 Qe7 28.Ng4 Bg7 29.a6 Rxd1 30.Rxd1 bxa6
+/= (0.55) Depth: 16/37 00:00:02 5409kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.bxa5 Qxc5 27.Rad1 Qe7 28.Ng4 Bg7 29.a6 Rxd1 30.Rxd1 bxa6
Depth: 17/37 00:00:03 7544kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.a3 Qg5+ 27.Kh1 Qg3 28.Nd5 Qxc3 29.Nxc3 Rd2
+/= (0.47) Depth: 17/37 00:00:03 7789kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.b4 a5 26.a3 Qg5+ 27.Kh1 Qg3 28.Nd5 Qxc3 29.Nxc3 Rd2
+/= (0.47) Depth: 17/37 00:00:03 7789kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.Rac1 Qh4 26.Ng2 Qxh3 27.Nxf4 Qxc3 28.Rxc3 exf4 29.Rc2 Bg7 30.e5 f3 31.Rf2
+/= (0.47) Depth: 18/37 00:00:04 9120kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.Bf1 Bf8 24.c5 Qe7 25.Rac1 Qh4 26.Ng2 Qxh3 27.Nxf4 Qxc3 28.Rxc3 exf4 29.Rc2 Bg7 30.e5 f3 31.Rf2
+/= (0.47) Depth: 18/37 00:00:05 11083kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Nf4 22.Nxe6 Rxe6 23.c5 Bf8 24.Bf1 Qe7 25.Rac1 Qh4 26.Ng2 Qxh3 27.Nxf4 Qxc3 28.Rxc3 exf4 29.Rc2 Bg7 30.e5 f3 31.Rf2
Depth: 19/44 00:00:11 22622kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Nd6 Re6 27.Rad1 b6 28.b4 Bxg2 29.Nxg2 bxc5 30.bxc5 Rb8 31.Qc4
+/= (0.43) Depth: 19/44 00:00:14 27976kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Nd6 Re6 27.Rad1 b6 28.b4 Bxg2 29.Nxg2 bxc5 30.bxc5 Rb8 31.Qc4
+/= (0.43) Depth: 19/44 00:00:14 27976kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Nd6 Rf8 27.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 28.Kh2 Nf4 29.Nec4 Qe7 30.Qg3 Nh5 31.Qg4 Rf2+ 32.Kg1
+/= (0.43) Depth: 20/44 00:00:16 32871kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Nd6 Rf8 27.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 28.Kh2 Nf4 29.Nec4 Qe7 30.Qg3 Nh5 31.Qg4 Rf2+ 32.Kg1
+/= (0.43) Depth: 20/44 00:00:20 40440kN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Nd6 Rf8 27.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 28.Kh2 Ng5 29.Rf1 b6 30.Rad1 Nf3+ 31.Kg2
Depth: 21/51 00:01:01 120mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 21/51 00:01:04 127mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 21/51 00:01:04 127mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 22/51 00:01:14 145mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 22/51 00:01:24 165mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 23/51 00:01:42 199mN
20.Qc3 Qc7 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Nd3 f5 23.c5 fxe4 24.Nf2 Nf4 25.Nxe4 Bxh3 26.Bxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kh2 Nf4 28.Nd6 Re6 29.Ng2 Nd5 30.Qh3 Rexd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Re4 h5 33.Rf1 Nf6 34.Re2 Ng4+ 35.Kg1
+/= (0.40) Depth: 23/51 00:02:04 243mN


2brr1k1/p6p/1pp1npp1/4p1b1/2P1P3/1PBN3P/P5NK/3RRB2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3 x64:

30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2
+/= (0.32) Depth: 6 00:00:00 3kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2
+/= (0.32) Depth: 7 00:00:00 5kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.c5
+/= (0.35) Depth: 8 00:00:00 11kN
30.h4
+/= (0.55 !) Depth: 9 00:00:00 22kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Bh3
+/= (0.65) Depth: 9 00:00:00 32kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Re7 33.Kg3 Red7 34.Bf1
+/= (0.45) Depth: 10 00:00:01 144kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Re7 33.Kg3 Red7 34.Bf1
+/= (0.45) Depth: 11 00:00:01 148kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Re7 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Bh3 Bxh3
+/= (0.46) Depth: 12 00:00:02 203kN
30.h4 Bh6[] 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Bg7 33.c5 Bf8 34.cxb6 axb6 35.Kg3 Bb7
+/= (0.49) Depth: 13 00:00:05 436kN
30.h4 Bh6[] 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Rf8 33.Rd2 Rf7 34.Rf2 Bf8 35.Kg3 Be6
+/= (0.52) Depth: 14 00:00:08 731kN
30.h4 Bh6[] 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Rf8 33.Rd2 Rf7 34.Rf2 Bf8 35.Kg3 Ne6 36.Ng4 Bg7 37.Nb4
+/= (0.62) Depth: 15 00:00:28 2406kN
30.h4 Bh6[] 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Bb7 33.Ng4 Bg7 34.c5 Bc8 35.Ne3
+/= (0.63) Depth: 16 00:01:43 8922kN


2brr1k1/p6p/1pp1npp1/4p1b1/2P1P3/1PBN3P/P5NK/3RRB2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by IPPOLIT 0.080a x64:

30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2
+/- (0.73) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 4kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2
+/- (0.73) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 5kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2
+/- (0.73) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 6kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2
+/- (0.73) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 6kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 h5
+/- (0.79) Depth: 8/19 00:00:00 9kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 h5
+/- (0.79) Depth: 8/19 00:00:00 9kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 Kf7 34.Rf2 h5
+/- (0.83) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 20kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 Kf7 34.Rf2 h5
+/- (0.83) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 22kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 Kf7 34.Rf2 h5 35.Rd1
+/- (0.82) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 42kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg3 Bf8 33.Rd2 Kf7 34.Rf2 h5 35.Rd1
+/- (0.82) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 57kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 h5 34.Rd2 Kg7 35.Red1 Bd6
+/- (0.81) Depth: 11/29 00:00:00 117kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 h5 34.Rd2 Kg7 35.Red1 Bd6
+/- (0.81) Depth: 11/29 00:00:00 145kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Rf1 Bd6 36.Nc2 a5 37.c5
+/- (0.79) Depth: 12/30 00:00:00 186kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Rf1 Bd6 36.Nc2 a5 37.c5
+/- (0.79) Depth: 12/30 00:00:00 237kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Bb2 Bd6 36.Rf1 Re7
+/- (0.78) Depth: 13/30 00:00:00 389kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Bb2 Bd6 36.Rf1 Re7
+/- (0.78) Depth: 13/30 00:00:00 451kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Red1 Bd6 36.Bh3 Bxh3 37.Kxh3 Rd7 38.Rg2
+/- (0.78) Depth: 14/30 00:00:00 611kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Red1 Bd6 36.Bh3 Bxh3 37.Kxh3 Rd7 38.Rg2
+/- (0.78) Depth: 14/30 00:00:00 806kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Bf8 33.Kg3 Kg7 34.Rd2 h5 35.Red1 Bd6 36.Bh3 Bxh3 37.Kxh3 Rd7 38.Rg1
Depth: 15/32 00:00:01 2450kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.Bf1 Bxe3 35.Rxe3 c5 36.Ree1 Red7 37.Rd2 Bb7 38.Bxd4 exd4
+/- (0.74) Depth: 15/32 00:00:01 2641kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.Bf1 Bxe3 35.Rxe3 c5 36.Ree1 Red7 37.Rd2 Bb7 38.Bxd4 exd4
+/- (0.74) Depth: 15/32 00:00:01 2641kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.Bf1 Bxe3 35.Rxe3 c5 36.Ree1 Red7 37.Rd2 Bb7 38.Bb2 h5
+/- (0.72) Depth: 16/32 00:00:01 3401kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.Bf1 Bxe3 35.Rxe3 c5 36.Ree1 Red7 37.Rd2 Bb7 38.Bb2 h5
+/- (0.72) Depth: 16/43 00:00:02 5163kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Bb2 a5 34.Kg3 Re7 35.c5 bxc5 36.Bc3 a4 37.Ba5 Rde8 38.bxa4 Ra7 39.Nc4 Be6 40.Nd6
+/= (0.67) Depth: 17/43 00:00:04 8239kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Bb2 a5 34.Kg3 Re7 35.c5 bxc5 36.Bc3 a4 37.Ba5 Rde8 38.bxa4 Ra7 39.Nc4 Be6 40.Nd6
+/= (0.67) Depth: 17/43 00:00:07 14498kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Bg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.Bf1 Be6 35.Rd2 Red7 36.Rf2 Ne2+ 37.Bxe2 Bxe3 38.Rf3 Bd4 39.Bxd4 Rxd4 40.Bf1
+/= (0.66) Depth: 18/43 00:00:10 19651kN
30.Kg3 Nd4 31.c5 Nc2 32.Re2 Nd4 33.Rf2 Kg7 34.Re1 Re7 35.h4 Bh6 36.Ne3 Ba6 37.cxb6 axb6 38.Nc4 Bxc4 39.bxc4 Ra7 40.c5 b5 41.Bh3
+/= (0.68) Depth: 18/43 00:00:13 25069kN
30.Kg3 Nd4 31.c5 Nc2 32.Re2 Nd4 33.Rf2 Kg7 34.Re1 Re7 35.h4 Bh6 36.Ne3 Ba6 37.cxb6 axb6 38.Nc4 Bxc4 39.bxc4 Ra7 40.c5 b5 41.Bh3
+/= (0.68) Depth: 18/43 00:00:13 26159kN
30.Kg3 Nd4 31.c5 h5 32.Ne3 h4+ 33.Kf2 Be6 34.Bg2 Kg7 35.Rg1 Re7 36.Bf1 Rf8 37.Bb2 Rd7 38.Ng4 Kh7 39.Bc3 Nb5 40.Bb4 Rfd8
+/= (0.69) Depth: 19/43 00:00:23 44931kN
30.Kg3 Nd4 31.c5 h5 32.Ne3 h4+ 33.Kf2 Be6 34.Bg2 Kg7 35.Rg1 Re7 36.Bf1 Rf8 37.Bb2 Rd7 38.Ng4 Kh7 39.Bc3 Nb5 40.Bb4 Rfd8
+/= (0.69) Depth: 19/43 00:00:25 47723kN
30.Kg3 Nd4 31.c5 h5 32.Ne3 h4+ 33.Kf2 Be6 34.Bg2 Kg7 35.Rg1 Re7 36.Bf1 Rf8 37.Bb2 Rd7 38.Ng4 Kh7 39.Bc3 Nb5 40.Bb4 Rfd8
+/= (0.69) Depth: 20/43 00:00:32 60710kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.c5 Red7 35.b4 b5 36.Rd2 Re7 37.Rf2 Ne2+ 38.Bxe2 Bxe3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Bxd4 exd4 41.Bf1
+/- (0.74) Depth: 20/43 00:00:42 79393kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.c5 Red7 35.b4 b5 36.Rd2 Re7 37.Rf2 Ne2+ 38.Bxe2 Bxe3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Bxd4 exd4 41.Bf1
+/- (0.74) Depth: 20/43 00:00:43 82196kN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.c5 Red7 35.b4 b5 36.Rd2 Re7 37.Rf2 Ne2+ 38.Bxe2 Bxe3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Bxd4 exd4 41.Bf1 Rde8
+/- (0.75) Depth: 21/46 00:00:56 108mN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.Kg3 Re7 34.c5 Red7 35.b4 b5 36.Rd2 Re7 37.Rf2 Ne2+ 38.Bxe2 Bxe3 39.Rf3 Bd4 40.Bxd4 exd4 41.Bf1 Rde8
+/- (0.75) Depth: 21/46 00:01:00 114mN
30.h4 Bh6 31.Ne3 Nd4 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.c5 Nb5 34.Bb2 Nd4 35.Kf2 Re7 36.Bg2 Be6 37.Rd2 Bg4 38.Rg1 Bc8 39.Bh1 b5 40.Bc3 Kf7
+/- (0.80) Depth: 22/54 00:02:58 336mN


To me it is clear that it is based on Rybka 3, but it is also clear that this engine is not Rybka 3. Instead of a clone it is a derivative in my opinion. Still illegal though.

[M ANSARI]

I don't know what our English alphabet is called

arabic ? or is it only numbers that are "arabic" ?

Strange because the arabic language does not even use the letters/numbers.

Matthias.

It would be latin and the numbers would be arabic. What is ironic is that the arabic language does not use arabic nubmerials anymore because they wanted to be different and thus are now using a numbering system that is vastly inferior. There is a grass root movement to move back to the much more practical original arabic numerals these days though, and already some arabic publications are moving back to them.

[playjunior]

Looked up their website, that "ь" language looks absolutely weird

A question to the authors of the engine: how much is the C code changed compared to "ь" code? If I take a compiler of "ь" (assuming I have one), compile, then reverse engineer (or whatever it is called) to C, how similar it would be to the code you have in C?

[Steve Maughan]

To me it is clear that it is based on Rybka 3, but it is also clear that this engine is not Rybka 3. Instead of a clone it is a derivative in my opinion. Still illegal though.

Hi Leto,

I'm playing catch-up here and trying to make sense of the thread. From what you've posted it seems really quite different from Rybka 3. Is there any evidence that it's Rybka apart from Vas' word?

To me this seems totally bizarre.

Steve

[Michael Sherwin]

Looked up their website, that "ь" language looks absolutely weird

A question to the authors of the engine: how much is the C code changed compared to "ь" code? If I take a compiler of "ь" (assuming I have one), compile, then reverse engineer (or whatever it is called) to C, how similar it would be to the code you have in C?

Okay, I can get back in now as this is an open minded question.

b-code is said to be a chess programming language. The 'original author' used this language. We do not know his involvement in the attempt to translate it to the general purpose language C. We do not know the translators ability to understand b-code. A decompiled binary to C may have been the expedient choice. I doubt that the resultant C code would resemble the b-code. At best, if the b-code version used was a debug version with the symbol tables intact then the Russian language symbols would be retrievable. Then the symbols would have to be translated to English in a separate step.

[playjunior]

Looked up their website, that "ь" language looks absolutely weird

A question to the authors of the engine: how much is the C code changed compared to "ь" code? If I take a compiler of "ь" (assuming I have one), compile, then reverse engineer (or whatever it is called) to C, how similar it would be to the code you have in C?

Okay, I can get back in now as this is an open minded question.

b-code is said to be a chess programming language. The 'original author' used this language. We do not know his involvement in the attempt to translate it to the general purpose language C. We do not know the translators ability to understand b-code. A decompiled binary to C may have been the expedient choice. I doubt that the resultant C code would resemble the b-code. At best, if the b-code version used was a debug version with the symbol tables intact then the Russian language symbols would be retrievable. Then the symbols would have to be translated to English in a separate step.

Thanks.
Maybe I should reformulate my question:
"ь" Code -> Executable(1) -> C -> Executable(2)
If the C code of the Executable(1) is not altered very much, then Executable(2) and Executable(1) should be quite similar. Is this true? Can we check it?

I looked at the "ь" Code and it is weird. I'm not a programming language expert but it did NOT look like something which would allow to generate fast code. On the other hand, if the C code kept parts of generated and reverse-engineered "ь" Code, this would suggest that "ь"-Source was written first. This is because C and "ь" are very asimilar and I don't believe you can obtain "ь" from C in any way except just writing everything from the scratch on "ь".

This would be a very strong evidence in my opinion that the engine is not a clone, or at least that it is not a direct clone.

Did anyone compare the binaries of this thing with Rybka 3? What are the similarities?
Where is Bob Hyatt ?