"I'm not a programmer", but then, why do you want that we believe you more than Michael Sherwin who is a programmer?Graham Banks wrote:It's a Rybka 3 clone, not a Rybka 2.3.2a clone. They've reverse engineered Rybka 3 as best they can. They've then tried to "fix" it and make it stronger.Michael Sherwin wrote:I found a 64bit version of Ippolit and compared its play, node rate (adjusted), depth of search and other factors to Rybka232a32 (well that is the latest version that I have) and determined to the best of my ability that they are not even close to being the same.
Subjective first conclusion: not a clone
However, I'm not a programmer, so somebody else could probably do a better job of explaining things.
Cheers,
Graham.
Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
It seems you know well the code difference between the two.M ANSARI wrote:It has nothing to do with Rybka 2.3 and everything to do with Rybka 3.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
Very good point!Matthias Gemuh wrote:Ippolit is a puzzle.
If this thing is a reverse-engineered Rybka 3, then Rybka 3 is NOT based on Rybka 2.3 !
Matthias.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
Excellent point!!!rlsuth wrote:Gerd Isenberg wrote:The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.Christopher Conkie wrote: You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?
He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
They are useful if they show a similarity so then we can say with much confidence that they must be clones, but if they don't show a similarity this doesn't mean they are not clones.James Constance wrote: Clearly displayed depth and nps can be meaningless. But I would have thought evaluation and the pv are useful in determining whether one engine is based upon another.
It's an implication and not an equivalence.
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
If tomorrow an engine called someway, from an inexistent author self called Kovay Ehpvictor Doygaklin, was released for free with its source code, with a completely ridiculous homepage full of bullshit about capitalist intrigues and such, with the code (as Marco Costalba has shown) to be so clearly evident a reverse engineered product of another engine, to make in the official homepage comparisons against Rybka saying this new engine makes no nps or depth propaganda, as also no Bishop subcrowning() like Rybka is unable to do(we speak about underpromotion) and this engine to be stronger than the top program(Rybka 3),Steve Maughan wrote: I'm playing catch-up here and trying to make sense of the thread. From what you've posted it seems really quite different from Rybka 3. Is there any evidence that it's Rybka apart from Vas' word?
......then can you say me illogical for strongly suspecting this engine to be a reverse engineered version of the top program?
But i guess all these are no proof right?
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
I agree with everything you say GeorgeGeorge Tsavdaris wrote:If tomorrow an engine called someway, from an inexistent author self called Kovay Ehpvictor Doygaklin, was released for free with its source code, with a completely ridiculous homepage full of bullshit about capitalist intrigues and such, with the code (as Marco Costalba has shown) to be so clearly evident a reverse engineered product of another engine, to make in the official homepage comparisons against Rybka saying this new engine makes no nps or depth propaganda, as also no Bishop subcrowning() like Rybka is unable to do(we speak about underpromotion) and this engine to be stronger than the top program(Rybka 3),Steve Maughan wrote: I'm playing catch-up here and trying to make sense of the thread. From what you've posted it seems really quite different from Rybka 3. Is there any evidence that it's Rybka apart from Vas' word?
......then can you say me illogical for strongly suspecting this engine to be a reverse engineered version of the top program?
But i guess all these are no proof right?
Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
So in order to believe or even start suspecting that Ippolit is a clone of Rybka, Vasik just has to release the code of Rybka 3 and let us compare them.slobo wrote:Excellent point!!!rlsuth wrote:Gerd Isenberg wrote:The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.Christopher Conkie wrote: You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?
He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.
Excellent point indeed!!!
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
George,
There's no doubt that this engine is odd. However, according to the Rybka forum it does *not* show the obvious weaknesses that Rybka 3 shows e.g. Bishop underpromotion. It also does seem to show nps and depth. I also agree that the website is bizarre - especially since they don't provide an exe. But then again others (e.g. Chrilly Donninger) have looked at disassembling Rybka so see how it works. Maybe, and I have no reason to believe this is the case, but maybe other have looked into strong programs and borrowed ideas for their own engine. In which case the only sin of this author is to publish the source code. If he's simply published the exe nobody would ahve complained.
Anyway the output I see seems sufficiently different to Rybka 3 for me to have an open mind. If it is indeed a pure clone then I will have no interest in it at all. Clones are simply boring IMO.
Best regards,
Steve
There's no doubt that this engine is odd. However, according to the Rybka forum it does *not* show the obvious weaknesses that Rybka 3 shows e.g. Bishop underpromotion. It also does seem to show nps and depth. I also agree that the website is bizarre - especially since they don't provide an exe. But then again others (e.g. Chrilly Donninger) have looked at disassembling Rybka so see how it works. Maybe, and I have no reason to believe this is the case, but maybe other have looked into strong programs and borrowed ideas for their own engine. In which case the only sin of this author is to publish the source code. If he's simply published the exe nobody would ahve complained.
Anyway the output I see seems sufficiently different to Rybka 3 for me to have an open mind. If it is indeed a pure clone then I will have no interest in it at all. Clones are simply boring IMO.
Best regards,
Steve
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?
Vas will never release his code. That is top secret.George Tsavdaris wrote:So in order to believe or even start suspecting that Ippolit is a clone of Rybka, Vasik just has to release the code of Rybka 3 and let us compare them.slobo wrote:Excellent point!!!rlsuth wrote:Gerd Isenberg wrote:The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.Christopher Conkie wrote: You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?
He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.
Excellent point indeed!!!