Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

[slobo]

I found a 64bit version of Ippolit and compared its play, node rate (adjusted), depth of search and other factors to Rybka232a32 (well that is the latest version that I have) and determined to the best of my ability that they are not even close to being the same.

Subjective first conclusion: not a clone

It's a Rybka 3 clone, not a Rybka 2.3.2a clone. They've reverse engineered Rybka 3 as best they can. They've then tried to "fix" it and make it stronger.
However, I'm not a programmer, so somebody else could probably do a better job of explaining things.

Cheers,
Graham.

"I'm not a programmer", but then, why do you want that we believe you more than Michael Sherwin who is a programmer?

[slobo]

It has nothing to do with Rybka 2.3 and everything to do with Rybka 3.

It seems you know well the code difference between the two.

[slobo]

Ippolit is a puzzle.
If this thing is a reverse-engineered Rybka 3, then Rybka 3 is NOT based on Rybka 2.3 !

Matthias.

Very good point!

[slobo]

You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?

The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.

He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.

Excellent point!!!

[George Tsavdaris]

Clearly displayed depth and nps can be meaningless. But I would have thought evaluation and the pv are useful in determining whether one engine is based upon another.

They are useful if they show a similarity so then we can say with much confidence that they must be clones, but if they don't show a similarity this doesn't mean they are not clones.

It's an implication and not an equivalence.

[George Tsavdaris]

I'm playing catch-up here and trying to make sense of the thread. From what you've posted it seems really quite different from Rybka 3. Is there any evidence that it's Rybka apart from Vas' word?

If tomorrow an engine called someway, from an inexistent author self called Kovay Ehpvictor Doygaklin, was released for free with its source code, with a completely ridiculous homepage full of bullshit about capitalist intrigues and such, with the code (as Marco Costalba has shown) to be so clearly evident a reverse engineered product of another engine, to make in the official homepage comparisons against Rybka saying this new engine makes no nps or depth propaganda, as also no Bishop subcrowning() like Rybka is unable to do(we speak about underpromotion) and this engine to be stronger than the top program(Rybka 3),

......then can you say me illogical for strongly suspecting this engine to be a reverse engineered version of the top program?


But i guess all these are no proof right?

[Eelco de Groot]

I'm playing catch-up here and trying to make sense of the thread. From what you've posted it seems really quite different from Rybka 3. Is there any evidence that it's Rybka apart from Vas' word?

If tomorrow an engine called someway, from an inexistent author self called Kovay Ehpvictor Doygaklin, was released for free with its source code, with a completely ridiculous homepage full of bullshit about capitalist intrigues and such, with the code (as Marco Costalba has shown) to be so clearly evident a reverse engineered product of another engine, to make in the official homepage comparisons against Rybka saying this new engine makes no nps or depth propaganda, as also no Bishop subcrowning() like Rybka is unable to do(we speak about underpromotion) and this engine to be stronger than the top program(Rybka 3),

......then can you say me illogical for strongly suspecting this engine to be a reverse engineered version of the top program?


But i guess all these are no proof right?

I agree with everything you say George

Eelco

[George Tsavdaris]

You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?

The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.

He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.

Excellent point!!!

So in order to believe or even start suspecting that Ippolit is a clone of Rybka, Vasik just has to release the code of Rybka 3 and let us compare them.

Excellent point indeed!!!

[Steve Maughan]

George,

There's no doubt that this engine is odd. However, according to the Rybka forum it does *not* show the obvious weaknesses that Rybka 3 shows e.g. Bishop underpromotion. It also does seem to show nps and depth. I also agree that the website is bizarre - especially since they don't provide an exe. But then again others (e.g. Chrilly Donninger) have looked at disassembling Rybka so see how it works. Maybe, and I have no reason to believe this is the case, but maybe other have looked into strong programs and borrowed ideas for their own engine. In which case the only sin of this author is to publish the source code. If he's simply published the exe nobody would ahve complained.

Anyway the output I see seems sufficiently different to Rybka 3 for me to have an open mind. If it is indeed a pure clone then I will have no interest in it at all. Clones are simply boring IMO.

Best regards,

Steve

[gerold]

You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?

The two cpw-pages Golyadkin and Ippolit by Gogol were deleted after Vasik's note to me, that cpw was hosting obvious piracy links. He made implications Ippolit is an illegal Rybka clone.

He needs to provide his proof then, as otherwise, it could just be that any program that threatens Rybka's perch at the top, gets accused of being illegal.

Excellent point!!!

So in order to believe or even start suspecting that Ippolit is a clone of Rybka, Vasik just has to release the code of Rybka 3 and let us compare them.

Excellent point indeed!!!

Vas will never release his code. That is top secret.