Vas about IPP engine

[Sylwy]

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12995

[Michael Sherwin]

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12995

There was an open-"source" (using the term loosely) clone of Rybka 3 released in the spring. Unlike the last time, there was no real attempt to hide the cloning - the hackers were even kind enough to keep me updated via email.

Vas

This leaves me underwhelmed. It looks to me that Vas couldn't care less about Ippolit (if that is the engine that he is really referring to) nor about the dilemma that we face figuring out what to do about it. Vas has many loyal customers that none the less are free thinkers and want to do what is right based on a more open and complete explanation. We do not want to be told like children; 'it's a clone, leave it alone'.

[gerold]

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12995

There was an open-"source" (using the term loosely) clone of Rybka 3 released in the spring. Unlike the last time, there was no real attempt to hide the cloning - the hackers were even kind enough to keep me updated via email.

Vas

This leaves me underwhelmed. It looks to me that Vas couldn't care less about Ippolit (if that is the engine that he is really referring to) nor about the dilemma that we face figuring out what to do about it. Vas has many loyal customers that none the less are free thinkers and want to do what is right based on a more open and complete explanation. We do not want to be told like children; 'it's a clone, leave it alone'.

Vas stays above the fray. The interest this engine is generating
will be good for sales of Rybka 4. As did the other clone before
Rybka 3.
Be nice if Vas released Rybka 3 as free engine.

Best.

Gerold.

[slobo]

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=12995

There was an open-"source" (using the term loosely) clone of Rybka 3 released in the spring. Unlike the last time, there was no real attempt to hide the cloning - the hackers were even kind enough to keep me updated via email.

Vas

This leaves me underwhelmed. It looks to me that Vas couldn't care less about Ippolit (if that is the engine that he is really referring to) nor about the dilemma that we face figuring out what to do about it. Vas has many loyal customers that none the less are free thinkers and want to do what is right based on a more open and complete explanation. We do not want to be told like children; 'it's a clone, leave it alone'.

Vas stays above the fray. The interest this engine is generating
will be good for sales of Rybka 4. As did the other clone before
Rybka 3.
Be nice if Vas released Rybka 3 as free engine.

Best.

Gerold.

Rybka 4 will have good sales if it manage to beat Ippolit 080.

[Steve Maughan]

This leaves me underwhelmed. It looks to me that Vas couldn't care less about Ippolit

I agree. It's a bizarre situation.

Steve

[Alexander Schmidt]

So, such a statement is the reason to ban Ippolit from this board?

Rybka wasn't banned when it came out of nowhere. And there where more similaries between Rybka and Fruit than now between Ippolit and Rybka.

Rybka's secret are the "tables". Now someone decompiles Rybka, does such huge changes, removes the "tables and the result is a better engine?

Sure, it is possible, but it is not prooven. There is not even one point Ippolit is a clone of Rybka except the strength, the names of the authors, and a statement of VR "There was an open-"source" (using the term loosely) clone of Rybka 3 released in the spring."

What if Stefan Meyer-Kahlen would have said "Rybka is a hacked Shredder"? Would that have been enough to ban Rybka?

[Steve B]

So, such a statement is the reason to ban Ippolit from this board?

the discussion of the Engine has not been banned from this forum
the links to the engine have been
the reason was given here:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=30192


some members wanted us to prohibit all discussion as well as links
some wanted discussion and no links
others want a full discussion with links
it would not be possible to make a decision that would please every member on this forum

i believe an appropriate moderation decision was made to allow discussion but not allow active links fully consistent with the CCC Charter
Regards
Steve

[M ANSARI]

The fact that it is a reverse engineered clone is not at issue. The people who did the reverse engineering have said that they were doing that and have been keeping Vas up to date with their progress to try to get some sort of outburst from him. If Strelka is an example, Vas will most likely simply ignore them and release code for R3 when he releases R4. The person with the original ideas will always be ahead of the curve and will always have the best product. The others will simply be scrambling to catch up. If you have a convertible car and it starts raining a little, go fast enough and you won't get wet. Hopefully R4 and future Rybkas will be like that. As long as Vas is interested in computer chess and as long as he has the strongest chess program on earth, there will always be someone out there who will try to steal what he cannot produce by himself.

[Alexander Schmidt]

The only thing I can see is that Vas says "someone hacked Rybka 3". He did not even say a word about Ippolit, or gave an examples from it's source.

What I can see comparing the 2 engines is:

• No tables in Ippolit
  Different Movegen
  Completely different UCI handling
  Different evaluation
  Different search
  Different Maximum Depth

Show me something similar except the strength

[slobo]

The fact that it is a reverse engineered clone is not at issue. The people who did the reverse engineering have said that they were doing that and have been keeping Vas up to date with their progress to try to get some sort of outburst from him. If Strelka is an example, Vas will most likely simply ignore them and release code for R3 when he releases R4. The person with the original ideas will always be ahead of the curve and will always have the best product. The others will simply be scrambling to catch up. If you have a convertible car and it starts raining a little, go fast enough and you won't get wet. Hopefully R4 and future Rybkas will be like that. As long as Vas is interested in computer chess and as long as he has the strongest chess program on earth, there will always be someone out there who will try to steal what he cannot produce by himself.

The only problem is that Ipp 080 is currently better product than Rybka 3 on 1 cpu.