question for GCP: are you planning a new release of Sjeng?

[Rolf]

Then you are violating the international human rights.

Then apply that to Rybka too. this is really disgusting here.

Interesting to note that Alexander is being applauded as a true hero in the cloners forum.

Probably all pseudos. I really cant imagine why the Schmidts and also Osipov are writing here. Also Deeb and others who see a religious obsession that caused us to contradict the cloners as if for us Vas were Jesus. In reality we contradict because the actions under pseudo shield and especially from East Europe and Russia, where no laws of copyright exist are even for a lay visibly indecent. Blackmail. A modern follow up of the internet with its possibilities. Although honestly I pity those smart guys who are involved into this because they have no real jobs with a financial recompensation proportional for their talents. These guys are no born criminals at all. I wished I could persuade them to come into the West to begin a sober career with money and all. Life is too short to be wasted with such deviant activities. But they must make the decision for their own luck. Cant be done by proxy.

[Albert Silver]

I thought Graham was a teacher and not able to charge you with anything at all. When were you arrested?

Where did I say i was arrested? Acuseing someone of an illegal action without any proof is illegal as well. At least in my country.

You claimed a violation of human rights, and duly reproduced the relevant passage which states your rights if you are charged with a crime.

[Rolf]

How do you make that decision? Give me an example where and when it would be ok, as per your view, to take and publish his confidential work.

I believe that knowledge belongs to everyone with all costs! And that people should give all their ideas to the public. Eventually.
The latter means after taking advantage from the ideas and make some money. And when there is a point where gain of money has decreased so much(e.g after 2-3 years for Rybka 3) the ideas/the knowledge has to be shared.

Let us suppose now that selling Rybka 1 has no real commercial value. By your argumentation the knowledge behind its success has to be shared. Why?

Because of science. Science is above all.
And science says that knowledge has to be shared.

Perhaps you do not believe that, but i believe that so i say these things.

What moral obligation does he have to explain to his opponents how he beat them silly?

I'm not saying his has necessarily a moral obligation to his opponents, i'm saying he has a moral obligation to the giants and non giants that he stood on their shoulders to create Rybka. And by never giving his shoulders to humanity, for other people to stand, is not correct and moral.

A moral obligation to science that is.

There have been several engines topping the lists in the past, such as Fritz, Hiarcs, and Shredder, and I don't recall anyone arguing the authors had some obligation to publish the code of their engine's older incarnations.

They had too of course.

Vas has single-handedly revived the entire field of chess-programming after a long period of stagnation. This isn't meant to belittle the efforts of other programmers, whether commercial, or helping teach (such as Bob), but I clearly recall, when Rybka beta was first announced, a period of YEARS, where the most software progress seen per year was in the order of 30 Elo. Furthermore, if we actually got that much, it was considered the work of genius. Suddenly Vas comes along, not only clobbering the field to the tune of at least 100 Elo, but delivering that same 100 Elo progress year after year. A one-hit wonder he is not.

And strangely enough, suddenly engines left and right were displaying serious progress, which years before would have been considered miraculous. Now do NOT get me wrong: I am absolutely NOT suggesting that the progress seen in Shredder or Hiarcs is in any way related to Rybka secrets. I am suggesting that they have been forced to step up the pace *considerably* in order to not be permanently condemned to choking on Rybka's dust as it speeds ahead.

Feel fortunate you actually have the option to buy Rybka and are not faced with it being a privateware engine such as Ferret.

I 100% agree with all these you are saying and these are great points that show how great is Vas, but this is irrelevant with the point we are talking about, about his obligation of releasing one day Rybka's code or the ideas inside it.

Dont you know that this isnt about science but about sports?? And in sports you are forced to publish your secrets? Sure.

[Alexander Schmidt]

You claimed a violation of human rights, and duly reproduced the relevant passage which states your rights if you are charged with a crime.

I think "charged" does not necessarily mean to be charged at court. But I could be wrong.

[Albert Silver]

You claimed a violation of human rights, and duly reproduced the relevant passage which states your rights if you are charged with a crime.

I think "charged" does not necessarily mean to be charged at court. But I could be wrong.

Allow me to highlight your own text:

International Human Rights Law, Article 11:

"Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence."

[DomLeste]

The only violation is here is stealing someone else's Intellectual property and making it your own.

Public trial LOL..more like Kangaroo court

[Rolf]

You claimed a violation of human rights, and duly reproduced the relevant passage which states your rights if you are charged with a crime.

I think "charged" does not necessarily mean to be charged at court. But I could be wrong.

What for else the law system is made for? In debating you could be wrong but that has no consequence other your status but taken a criminal charge that will go to court to be decided. Then the fundamental right is for any defendant before not convicted guilty you are treated innocent but that doesnt mean that you dont sit in jail as a suspect. Get the idea?

But now take the cloner suspects. they dont even have relevant names. No addresses. So that alone speaks against them. No shame when you look at Vasik Rajlich married and both chessmasters? No respect for them? But for the cloners you are now writing in emergency mode?

Let me ask you, no response needed. Could you see a situation with certain new informations that you could change your mind on the whole topic? Just think about it. Probably I could be your grandfather. And I'm almost certain that you are mistaken, but sure I'm not a programmer hero. There you might be far better. Like many others.

[Alexander Schmidt]

Allow me to highlight your own text:

"Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence."

And? That means "anyone has the right to be presumed innocent."

The only way to lose that right is when one is prooved guilty according to law... and so on...

[Albert Silver]

Allow me to highlight your own text:

"Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence."

And? That means "anyone has the right to be presumed innocent."

The only way to lose that right is when one is prooved guilty according to law... and so on...

Yes, if *charged* with a crime. As far as I know you weren't charged with anything, unless you have had issues with law enforcement I am not aware of.

So why not just state your position clearly? Vas has stated his. Let us presume, for the moment, that no one will take this to a court of law. Are you claiming that you believe Vas is either wrong or lying?

[Alexander Schmidt]

Yes, if *charged* with a crime. As far as I know you weren't charged with anything, unless you have had issues with law enforcement I am not aware of.

Graham writes everywhere, that Ippolit is a illegal clone, so he "charges" the author of a "crime". Thats what I was talking about.

So why not just state your position clearly? Vas has stated his. Let us presume, for the moment, that no one will take this to a court of law. Are you claiming that you believe Vas is either wrong or lying?

I stated my position very clearly

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 96&t=30276

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#302663