question for GCP: are you planning a new release of Sjeng?

[Alexander Schmidt]

and your cloner buddy is the honest guy, but it is not mine.

He is not my buddy.

I will not discuss with you on this ignorant basis.

Get back to your altar with VR's picture and knee down.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

and your cloner buddy is the honest guy, but it is not mine.

He is not my buddy.

I will not discuss with you on this ignorant basis.

Get back to your altar with VR's picture and knee down.

Albert,that was a little bit harsh on Alexander....the person in question,"his buddy",is not the cloner,he's releasing new versions of the cursed engine on his web site my modifying it's source code posted somewhere else....and Alexander has nothing to do with that....

I like the last sentance of Alexander's post though....you know,the praying thing ....accept it as a good joke please
Dr.D

[Graham Banks]

Hi Graham,
I wonder whether you would be kind enough to answer a few questions for me.

I seem to remember that you have been in recent contact with Vas and that he has told you that his engine has been cloned and that the cloners were sending him email updates about the progress that they were making. Do you happen to know whether he has made all or part of those emails available for public scrutiny? If he has, do you know where?

The email content has not been published as far as I'm aware.

I also think that Vas once believed that Strelka was a clone of Rybka. Was that issue ever settled and if so, what was the outcome?

Depends on who you want to believe.

I note that the logo assigned to one of the engines that is associated with the putative clone is a multi coloured fish.

Not hard to figure out why.

[Albert Silver]

and your cloner buddy is the honest guy, but it is not mine.

He is not my buddy.

I will not discuss with you on this ignorant basis.

Get back to your altar with VR's picture and knee down.

Albert,that was a little bit harsh on Alexander....the person in question,"his buddy",is not the cloner,he's releasing new versions of the cursed engine on his web site my modifying it's source code posted somewhere else....and Alexander has nothing to do with that....

I like the last sentance of Alexander's post though....you know,the praying thing ....accept it as a good joke please
Dr.D

I don't think I was too harsh. Stating that Vas's word is meaningless, especially in favor of this engine, is not a light statement. Perhaps his buddy is not the cloner. He is still the same guy that swindled people out of money for his Patriot engine. This was a cruel blow not only to honest buyers, but to Frank Quisinsky's reputation.

As to kneeling to Vas... Bah, that sort of comment has no weight to me. I'm the type of person who stands by his friends.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

and your cloner buddy is the honest guy, but it is not mine.

He is not my buddy.

I will not discuss with you on this ignorant basis.

Get back to your altar with VR's picture and knee down.

Albert,that was a little bit harsh on Alexander....the person in question,"his buddy",is not the cloner,he's releasing new versions of the cursed engine on his web site my modifying it's source code posted somewhere else....and Alexander has nothing to do with that....

I like the last sentance of Alexander's post though....you know,the praying thing ....accept it as a good joke please
Dr.D

I don't think I was too harsh. Stating that Vas's word is meaningless, especially in favor of this engine, is not a light statement. Perhaps his buddy is not the cloner. He is still the same guy that swindled people out of money for his Patriot engine. This was a cruel blow not only to honest buyers, but to Frank Quisinsky's reputation.

As to kneeling to Vas... Bah, that sort of comment has no weight to me. I'm the type of person who stands by his friends.

Even Worse....Frank almost completely lost his interest in computer chess after this incident....

BTW,I was talking about another cloner and he's definitely not Patriot's author....I know that there were some speculations that Vladimir Yelin is behind this whole affair,but yet again it's a mystery waiting to be cleared as long as many mysteries related to this topic....
Dr.D

[michiguel]

This issue has nothing to do with that because HR applied to people (real people) who are physically punished or their liberty is restrained by more powerful entities (e.g. government or organized groups). This, as best if you are right, would be slander. But, how can you slander an anonymous entity?

Miguel

Human rights apply to everyone.

Apply to **HUMANS**, and the right you mention relates to PUNISH, not to being ACCUSED.

Accusing someone of illegal action is not just slander.

All here are "anonymus" persons. Does this give me the rigth to slander you?

I am not anonymous.

Miguel

Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

[Uri Blass]

Yeah - the general glee with with which some have accepted the illegal engine with both hands and run with it is very disappointing.

If it is illegal (I haven't been following the threads on this engine) what would be more disappointing is if other competitor commercial engine authors studied the code with a view to improving their own engines. Their hands would be just as dirty as the person who committed the alleged illegal act in the first place. It must be a huge temptation, but one I'd hope most if not all would resist.

I think that you can do nothing about it.
Even if commercial programmers do not study the code directly
it seems that part of the authors of stockfish are going to study the code and use ideas in the code to improve stockfish and later people may learn from stockfish to improve their program.

Uri

[Rolf]

VR already made the accusation, (snip) his word is good enough for me.

Words... not evidence. Is Impolite a clone? I don't know. Most readers here don't know. And those who claim to know fail to come up with evidence. VR included.

And of course the term 'clone' is still to be defined. You have to establish axioms before you can prove theorems.

Hi Gabor,

unfortunately your signature isnt copied with your message. It says you belong to a famous testing group CCRL. So for me at least you are an expert, a man who is because authentic not risking to say anything else as something honest. No matter what it is.

Now please, all I ask you of is that you grant the same respect to Vasik. If you do you'll see that you would easily catch the meaning of what Albert wrote in his quoted snip above. So far ok?

Now begins the even more difficult part for me because you know I'm not really what one would call a programmer expert. But I can well understand a logic that is alwys in crime cases and international terrorism.
In short, the public wants information, possibly all the evidence, but this is a no go. Because do you wanted to incite further wrong only by adding informational "evidence"?

There are cases like the actual here with what Vasik said, that if he wanted to prove what all the infidels are urging him to do, that then he had to reveil his whole stuff what the "hackers" where seeking for, so that next time they had even better condition for their actions.

Gabor, now you are in a sort of trap. If you dont believe in what authorities or honorable people of the community are saying then how can you as a tester be trusted who had been allowed to test but not to do "other" things with the programs?

Please dont join those who because of lack of experience but being smart prematurely ask for "evidence" what in truth means hand us over all your inventions and tricks so that we can legally rob you and must not further steal your code.

So, trusting Vas isnt a religion, but it's something that should be done who dont want to help thieves and who dont know what damage they are causing in their naivety. Best to you, Rolf

[Rolf]

VR already made the accusation, (snip) his word is good enough for me.

Words... not evidence. Is Impolite a clone? I don't know. Most readers here don't know. And those who claim to know fail to come up with evidence. VR included.

And of course the term 'clone' is still to be defined. You have to establish axioms before you can prove theorems.

In short, the public wants information, possibly all the evidence, but this is a no go. Because do you wanted to incite further wrong only by adding informational "evidence"?

There are cases like the actual here with what Vasik said, that if he wanted to prove what all the infidels are urging him to do, that then he had to reveil his whole stuff what the "hackers" where seeking for, so that next time they had even better condition for their actions.

I can understand that the situation is rather unfortunate, in fact hopeless. You say there is no way to provide evidence without causing further damage. In which case there is nothing upon which a 'guilty' verdict can be based. Unless, of course, the bases of jurisdiction are changed. But no one would want that.

But Gabor, are you serious? Of course there is also the possibility that Vas in total is the wrong figure in this, but do you personally want to put him down, distrust him, when he has a real name, authentic background and merits all over if his countrahents are anonymous fakes without addresses and authenticity?

Dont you see how this darkens your own trustability and honesty if you prefer anonymous thieves over Vasik Rajlich?

I fully agree with you if that helps you a little bit, yes, you are RIGHT, nothing has yet been proven, Gabor. Even smart kids could see that.

But again, you have the choice between the hint from Vas and on the other side you have anonymity and evil laughter of figures who are profiting from an impossible to do proof if a creative number one cant tell you his secrets.

Dont you realise that it becomes a twisted evil position if you want to profit from such a totally innocent reason to NOT show the proof to the public? Have you not so much respect for Vas Rajlich that you still think or want to pretend that practically Vas is on the same level of honesty like the anonymous thieves or the clapping hands here on the forum? Dont you see the infantil part in such a joy over flames that are threatening someone else but hopefully not yourself or your property?

I suppose that the only aspect that bothers you is that people could actually think that ALL has already been proven and therefore I tried to explain that this isnt certainly the case. But again, it's kind of getting into madness, if one wanted to set equal someone like Vas and his opposing anonymous thieves. Not because that had been proven by a court in a fair triel, know what I mean? But everything what could be seen by all of us, that leads to the almost proof that these anonymous crooks are on the wrong side.

Ok, you have the freedom to decide in the opposite direction, but ok, then I wouldnt trust you with your testing results anymore. And that having said, I hope you dont "test" theses clones or whatever!

It's so easy, if you give us their names and address and background, then of course they have the same rights like all of us, but not hiding behind a shield without copyright etc. If we have their names the theft then could be examined by our justice system in Western Europe (EU). NB that also Poland is part of it. Also Hungary, your homeland.

A final caveat. All that having said it remains the fact that we are talking about our computerchess which isnt really a market to make millions of profit. But make no mistake. Just because Russia has no real protection for copyright, just because the damage isnt in the millions, that doesnt mean that you should make the wrong, illegal decisions and to support anonymous thieves.

[Kirk]

Nothing concrete at this point. Due to what happened with Rybka (Ippolit disaster) I am going to consider very carefully before releasing anything new, or whether it even makes sense.

Why it would not make sense?

I'm not sure many people will buy Deep Sjeng 4 with Ippolit being available for free.
t.

I would. I am more interested in "uniqueness" more than strength. I am willing to purchase all of the "classic" engines that have been around pre-major clone years, like Tiger, Sjeng, Shredder, Hiatcs, Zap, etc because we know of their origins.

Besides you have always offered the engine at a fair price, especially for an SMP one!!

If you put out Deep Sjeng 4, count me in on the upgrade

"ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM" regards