Vas Rajlich Video...

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

After that discussion, a groups of programmers promised to come back with the smoking gun in public. That NEVER happened, yet, everybody talks like this was an obvious thing. No, it was controversial at best.

Yes, Zach has more evidence and I tend to believe him because he is a serious guy, but I will wait until he speaks. On the mean time, the least everybody can do is just stay quiet, or show their own data.

This isnt sound science nor logic. You state truthfully that 4 people had announced they would show proof. This was repeated in a loop. For years. Now tere is still no proof. At such a moment it's not sound to declare that all have better to be quit until someone comes with the proof.

Sound would be to tell people like these announcers to shut up because they have no proof and never will. All what they are doing is defamating Vas.

And to let it look the least suspicious they did NOT push a Norm S. in front, no, the youngest student is making these claims so that it always can be explained and excused that he's still so young.

That style isnt right. But as I told Zach years ago. Ok, he can well follow such agendas but in the long run it will deteriorate his own life as individual and potentially scientist. Such agendas are always wrong because it cant promote someone's own career in science. Not to speak of illegal methods that must be applied to do the investigation. Only caveat. The FBI does the same but it's a State institution in crime affair examinations. But poor private Zach is private and seeing him on the run accusing a Wch this is NOT authorized at all. It's his own agenda, fed by his other supporters. It's a private lynch-like permanent smear on Vas Rajlich.

My other killer argument against Zach is simply the question what is he investigating in the codes of the other commercial engines? Aha, he's not interested at all. Well, then it's clear that he is hunting someone with a special agenda. He isnt doing science or such some.

(The argument explained to young readers: if say all other commercial competitors grab other code into their closed prog code, THEN where is the offense in the allegated violation of whatever by Vas? Is this sound to scapegoat a single player? Where is the crime if all are doing the same?? So, before Zach accused Vas for anything at all he should describe the general situation which is BTW the typical procedere in science. What Zach is doing isnt science. And that will be his burden for the future in his life as scientist if that should ever be his plan at all. There is no excuse because it was well explained why his agenda like research isnt sound. Now you might say, how could I know that everybody is doing the same. That is a good question. Of course I dont know this at all, but the one who is crying wolf against a specific player, must by all means investigate that question, because if he cant find out how will he exclude that they all are doing the same what he especially accused Vas of? This is such a basic argument against Zach's investigation, that he also could have stopped it years ago. The only reason for continuing is that Vas should be scapegoated, nothing else. Please ask me if you dont understand something.)

Please stop mentioning the science issue every now and then in your post....you don't even know what that word mean actually....

[gerold]

After that discussion, a groups of programmers promised to come back with the smoking gun in public. That NEVER happened, yet, everybody talks like this was an obvious thing. No, it was controversial at best.

Yes, Zach has more evidence and I tend to believe him because he is a serious guy, but I will wait until he speaks. On the mean time, the least everybody can do is just stay quiet, or show their own data.

This isnt sound science nor logic. You state truthfully that 4 people had announced they would show proof. This was repeated in a loop. For years. Now tere is still no proof. At such a moment it's not sound to declare that all have better to be quit until someone comes with the proof.

Sound would be to tell people like these announcers to shut up because they have no proof and never will. All what they are doing is defamating Vas.

And to let it look the least suspicious they did NOT push a Norm S. in front, no, the youngest student is making these claims so that it always can be explained and excused that he's still so young.

That style isnt right. But as I told Zach years ago. Ok, he can well follow such agendas but in the long run it will deteriorate his own life as individual and potentially scientist. Such agendas are always wrong because it cant promote someone's own career in science. Not to speak of illegal methods that must be applied to do the investigation. Only caveat. The FBI does the same but it's a State institution in crime affair examinations. But poor private Zach is private and seeing him on the run accusing a Wch this is NOT authorized at all. It's his own agenda, fed by his other supporters. It's a private lynch-like permanent smear on Vas Rajlich.

My other killer argument against Zach is simply the question what is he investigating in the codes of the other commercial engines? Aha, he's not interested at all. Well, then it's clear that he is hunting someone with a special agenda. He isnt doing science or such some.

(The argument explained to young readers: if say all other commercial competitors grab other code into their closed prog code, THEN where is the offense in the allegated violation of whatever by Vas? Is this sound to scapegoat a single player? Where is the crime if all are doing the same?? So, before Zach accused Vas for anything at all he should describe the general situation which is BTW the typical procedere in science. What Zach is doing isnt science. And that will be his burden for the future in his life as scientist if that should ever be his plan at all. There is no excuse because it was well explained why his agenda like research isnt sound. Now you might say, how could I know that everybody is doing the same. That is a good question. Of course I dont know this at all, but the one who is crying wolf against a specific player, must by all means investigate that question, because if he cant find out how will he exclude that they all are doing the same what he especially accused Vas of? This is such a basic argument against Zach's investigation, that he also could have stopped it years ago. The only reason for continuing is that Vas should be scapegoated, nothing else. Please ask me if you dont understand something.)

Will Rybka 4 if it ever gets here be the same as Robb. Or will it
be the other way around.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

After that discussion, a groups of programmers promised to come back with the smoking gun in public. That NEVER happened, yet, everybody talks like this was an obvious thing. No, it was controversial at best.

Yes, Zach has more evidence and I tend to believe him because he is a serious guy, but I will wait until he speaks. On the mean time, the least everybody can do is just stay quiet, or show their own data.

This isnt sound science nor logic. You state truthfully that 4 people had announced they would show proof. This was repeated in a loop. For years. Now tere is still no proof. At such a moment it's not sound to declare that all have better to be quit until someone comes with the proof.

Sound would be to tell people like these announcers to shut up because they have no proof and never will. All what they are doing is defamating Vas.

And to let it look the least suspicious they did NOT push a Norm S. in front, no, the youngest student is making these claims so that it always can be explained and excused that he's still so young.

That style isnt right. But as I told Zach years ago. Ok, he can well follow such agendas but in the long run it will deteriorate his own life as individual and potentially scientist. Such agendas are always wrong because it cant promote someone's own career in science. Not to speak of illegal methods that must be applied to do the investigation. Only caveat. The FBI does the same but it's a State institution in crime affair examinations. But poor private Zach is private and seeing him on the run accusing a Wch this is NOT authorized at all. It's his own agenda, fed by his other supporters. It's a private lynch-like permanent smear on Vas Rajlich.

My other killer argument against Zach is simply the question what is he investigating in the codes of the other commercial engines? Aha, he's not interested at all. Well, then it's clear that he is hunting someone with a special agenda. He isnt doing science or such some.

(The argument explained to young readers: if say all other commercial competitors grab other code into their closed prog code, THEN where is the offense in the allegated violation of whatever by Vas? Is this sound to scapegoat a single player? Where is the crime if all are doing the same?? So, before Zach accused Vas for anything at all he should describe the general situation which is BTW the typical procedere in science. What Zach is doing isnt science. And that will be his burden for the future in his life as scientist if that should ever be his plan at all. There is no excuse because it was well explained why his agenda like research isnt sound. Now you might say, how could I know that everybody is doing the same. That is a good question. Of course I dont know this at all, but the one who is crying wolf against a specific player, must by all means investigate that question, because if he cant find out how will he exclude that they all are doing the same what he especially accused Vas of? This is such a basic argument against Zach's investigation, that he also could have stopped it years ago. The only reason for continuing is that Vas should be scapegoated, nothing else. Please ask me if you dont understand something.)

Will Rybka 4 if it ever gets here be the same as Robb. Or will it
be the other way around.

An excellent question Gerold,thanks
Dr.D

[Alexander Schmidt]

But how do you know that he did not take only ideas from Fruit? Have you seen Rybka 1.0beta code?

I can read the output. It would be absolutely useless to take the "idea" of fruit to group the output in a special way because it has absolutely no effect on the strength or behaviour under a guy.

This happens only if you take the code and "improve" it.

It's like you pimp a car. After that it is a completely different car, but it still looks the same. If you build your own car with the same technics, it will look different.

[Rolf]

Will Rybka 4 if it ever gets here be the same as Robb. Or will it
be the other way around.

Worse! Vas will change Rybka's sex and in future she's called R_o_b_e_r_t. I alway told you that Vas is evil. When you and all others here still defended him and claimed that at least he had created a very good program. Hahaha. In real he tried to get us with this female seduction. A scandal! He's a Frankenstein. Ar ar ar.

[Uri Blass]

But i don't want strong speculations or almost sure facts. I want a 100% proof.

You can't even have a 100% proof that grass is green.
This is not math, you need to have some conventions on what is a copied code, and what is sufficient for you. Regarding your attitude (which is really a troll), you won't be convinced even if somebody presented you the source code of Rybka 1.0 vs. Fruit (2.1 or any suitable version). You would say, yes, but variable names are changed, and for is replaced with while, etc. It's like ppl that still believe that America didn't land on the moon or similar stuff.

For anybody with at least basic knowledge of assembler and programming this (http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... fruit+zach) is enough to undoubtedly conclude that some code in Rybka 1.0 is copied directly from Fruit.
Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story.

The part of
"Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story." is nonsense because I am sure that different people can even come with the same single line independetely.

I also disagree that we can undoubtedly conclude that some code in Rybka1.0 is directly copied from fruit.

I also think that expressing these opinions is counter productive for computer chess because people may be afraid to write their own code because they are going to be blamed by other people that they copied from other sources even if they do not do it.

Uri

[Milos]

The part of
"Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story." is nonsense because I am sure that different people can even come with the same single line independetely.

This is hard to believe, and I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I also think that expressing these opinions is counter productive for computer chess because people may be afraid to write their own code because they are going to be blamed by other people that they copied from other sources even if they do not do it.

This is wrong, since coping directly from a GPL program is not wrong at all if you make your source code public. That's exactly the purpose of GPL.
On the other hand, if you earn money by coping somebody else's code, you are violating GPL even if you copied only a single line, and there is no question about it. Simple message, you wanna go commercial, fine, but be careful what you are doing.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

The part of
"Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story." is nonsense because I am sure that different people can even come with the same single line independetely.

This is hard to believe, and I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I also think that expressing these opinions is counter productive for computer chess because people may be afraid to write their own code because they are going to be blamed by other people that they copied from other sources even if they do not do it.

This is wrong, since coping directly from a GPL program is not wrong at all if you make your source code public. That's exactly the purpose of GPL.
On the other hand, if you earn money by coping somebody else's code, you are violating GPL even if you copied only a single line, and there is no question about it. Simple message, you wanna go commercial, fine, but be careful what you are doing.

Are we awaiting a commercial release of Movei Uri
I can sense things from a distance you know
Dr.D

[Uri Blass]

The part of
"Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story." is nonsense because I am sure that different people can even come with the same single line independetely.

This is hard to believe, and I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I also think that expressing these opinions is counter productive for computer chess because people may be afraid to write their own code because they are going to be blamed by other people that they copied from other sources even if they do not do it.

This is wrong, since coping directly from a GPL program is not wrong at all if you make your source code public. That's exactly the purpose of GPL.
On the other hand, if you earn money by coping somebody else's code, you are violating GPL even if you copied only a single line, and there is no question about it. Simple message, you wanna go commercial, fine, but be careful what you are doing.

Are we awaiting a commercial release of Movei Uri
I can sense things from a distance you know
Dr.D

No and I did not work on movei in the last 2 years.

Uri

[Uri Blass]

The part of
"Even if 1 line is directly copied, GPL is violated and this is the end of story." is nonsense because I am sure that different people can even come with the same single line independetely.

This is hard to believe, and I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I also think that expressing these opinions is counter productive for computer chess because people may be afraid to write their own code because they are going to be blamed by other people that they copied from other sources even if they do not do it.

This is wrong, since coping directly from a GPL program is not wrong at all if you make your source code public. That's exactly the purpose of GPL.
On the other hand, if you earn money by coping somebody else's code, you are violating GPL even if you copied only a single line, and there is no question about it. Simple message, you wanna go commercial, fine, but be careful what you are doing.

2 programs can have independely the same line.
For example
2 independent chess programs may have the line i++;

It is clear that you cannot decide that B broke the GPL only because B has the line i++; in the source code and A that is a GPL has also the same line.

Uri