The King is a pretty impressive program, but Johan has not kept up with it. But there was a time when it was very near the top, if not at the top.
I put King in the "very dangerous" category - it's one of those programs I hate for Komodo to be paired against because I don't know what to expect and I know it can win.
Dann Corbit wrote:
Kirk wrote:Anyone hear if they plan on continuing the line? Unless Johan de Koning has made a comeback they will need a new engine.
Why? TheKing has never been the strongest engine at any time as far as I recall. It is stronger than basically everyone who buys Chessmaster. I guess at some point they will issue a new version and it will get shelf space and people will buy it.
Here is what you get with ChessMaster:
1. Nice GUI
2. Easy installation
3. Technical support
4. Documenation
5. Online play
6. Chess database
7. Strong chess engine.
That's probably the order of importance, too.
Do I remember hearing rumors of HIARCS a few years back?
If you put Rybka in there, none of they users who buy it will know the difference anyway. The'll still imagine it's the Merlin looking dude on the box cover.
I too am a Chessmaster fan. I spent days with Cm 4000 when it came out. I didn't shower or eat till my wife nagged me into it. All very true that it is built for the massess and the teaching is one of it's selling points. Lots of eye candy as well. Cm 9000 was the one I liked best in terms of sets. Grandmaster is fun as well. I wish they would come out with more functional features for the Pro as well as visuals. The teaching thing is not my preference. Uci engines could always make the program strong enuff. I do hope that future production is in the works. Any info on that?
My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
Hey Fern!
No disdain. I was thinking that in order to keep it competitive in the market place it just has to stay current.
It does not have to be the strongest obviously, but try and "market" an engine that is no longer being worked on
At the very least they need to print "most up-to-date King Engine" on the retail box to sell to the mass market, not to the die hards
Heck, I was happy when Chessmaster 6K came out and remember the "strength" jump in CM4K when Johan came on board
I just seem to remember they used to put one out every two years, but I cannot find any news that they are at least pondering it.
Speaking of CM5500 I made a personality that tried to mimic my father. I have updated it with ever version as I own all from 3K to 11th. So God rest his soul, I can still play a game with "him" from time to time. It is a good game and I remember John Merlino posting quite often while CM9K was being worked on. Good memories.
Just wondering if we have seen the last of it, that is all
“He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious”
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
Not sure about disdain or not. But I have purchased every single version of ChessMaster since 5500
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
It's human nature to want the best. But certainly I would think that playing style should define what makes one product more "pleasing" than another.
Do you remember the old days of computer chess? A few decades ago it was important to buy a program significantly stronger than you were, because if a program had the same approximate ELO strength you could generally outplay it. The primary differences was that computers rarely made shallow tactical blunders.
For instance the Super Constellation was rated USCF 2018 I think, but most 1800+ players could outplay it in general, at least until they made a stupid move. But unless you have a big EGO and just like to constantly outplay the machine you had to have something much stronger to feel that you were getting resistance.
Also, it was common back then to quickly learn the strengths and weakness of the machines so that you could beat them - even if they were technically stronger. So you really had to go for more.
Of course today none of this is an issue since the best programs are over 1000 ELO stronger than the majority of chess players.
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
It's human nature to want the best. But certainly I would think that playing style should define what makes one product more "pleasing" than another.
Do you remember the old days of computer chess? A few decades ago it was important to buy a program significantly stronger than you were, because if a program had the same approximate ELO strength you could generally outplay it. The primary differences was that computers rarely made shallow tactical blunders.
For instance the Super Constellation was rated USCF 2018 I think, but most 1800+ players could outplay it in general, at least until they made a stupid move. But unless you have a big EGO and just like to constantly outplay the machine you had to have something much stronger to feel that you were getting resistance.
Also, it was common back then to quickly learn the strengths and weakness of the machines so that you could beat them - even if they were technically stronger. So you really had to go for more.
Of course today none of this is an issue since the best programs are over 1000 ELO stronger than the majority of chess players.
Exactly, human nature.
Look at how many men like to have a sports car that can drive 120+ mph? You can never use that in real life, but the point is "you can".
Same idea in trying to market a project.
I suppose another reason is if you use CM to analyze your games. One would try and market the idea that you are getting the "best advice" that current technology offers.
Necessary in reality? Nope.
But for the mass market it works on the psychological level.
“He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious”
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
It's human nature to want the best. But certainly I would think that playing style should define what makes one product more "pleasing" than another.
Do you remember the old days of computer chess? A few decades ago it was important to buy a program significantly stronger than you were, because if a program had the same approximate ELO strength you could generally outplay it. The primary differences was that computers rarely made shallow tactical blunders.
For instance the Super Constellation was rated USCF 2018 I think, but most 1800+ players could outplay it in general, at least until they made a stupid move. But unless you have a big EGO and just like to constantly outplay the machine you had to have something much stronger to feel that you were getting resistance.
Also, it was common back then to quickly learn the strengths and weakness of the machines so that you could beat them - even if they were technically stronger. So you really had to go for more.
Of course today none of this is an issue since the best programs are over 1000 ELO stronger than the majority of chess players.
Exactly, human nature.
Look at how many men like to have a sports car that can drive 120+ mph? You can never use that in real life, but the point is "you can".
Perhaps more to the point, how many men can actually handle such a car? Most buyers of sports cars lack the skill to get near the limits of such a machine.
Same idea in trying to market a project.
To market Komodo on television you must have a room full of beautiful people with huge smiles and laughter on their faces having the time of their lives playing Komodo on the computer. And of course you have to have the girl in the ad so that the implication is that if you buy Komodo you will get the beautiful girl with it.
I suppose another reason is if you use CM to analyze your games. One would try and market the idea that you are getting the "best advice" that current technology offers.
Necessary in reality? Nope.
But for the mass market it works on the psychological level.
fern wrote:My dear frend:
Did I listen a certain tone of disdain about chessmaster?
Certainly is not the strongest engine to date, but surely is at least a 2400-2500, more than enough to beat everybody here. If you add to that all the features you mention, it is still the best purchase any chess player, not only a dude, can do.
I do exception for those fans that look for the strongest engine available I do not know for what
Fern
It's human nature to want the best. But certainly I would think that playing style should define what makes one product more "pleasing" than another.
Do you remember the old days of computer chess? A few decades ago it was important to buy a program significantly stronger than you were, because if a program had the same approximate ELO strength you could generally outplay it. The primary differences was that computers rarely made shallow tactical blunders.
For instance the Super Constellation was rated USCF 2018 I think, but most 1800+ players could outplay it in general, at least until they made a stupid move. But unless you have a big EGO and just like to constantly outplay the machine you had to have something much stronger to feel that you were getting resistance.
Also, it was common back then to quickly learn the strengths and weakness of the machines so that you could beat them - even if they were technically stronger. So you really had to go for more.
Of course today none of this is an issue since the best programs are over 1000 ELO stronger than the majority of chess players.
Exactly, human nature.
Look at how many men like to have a sports car that can drive 120+ mph? You can never use that in real life, but the point is "you can".
Perhaps more to the point, how many men can actually handle such a car? Most buyers of sports cars lack the skill to get near the limits of such a machine.
Same idea in trying to market a project.
To market Komodo on television you must have a room full of beautiful people with huge smiles and laughter on their faces having the time of their lives playing Komodo on the computer. And of course you have to have the girl in the ad so that the implication is that if you buy Komodo you will get the beautiful girl with it.
I suppose another reason is if you use CM to analyze your games. One would try and market the idea that you are getting the "best advice" that current technology offers.
Necessary in reality? Nope.
But for the mass market it works on the psychological level.
That reminds me of the Monty Python STRING Sketch!
