Is this truthfully?

[Milos]

Although I am also waiting eagerly for the new Arena I can still remember that Michael promised only to send the beta to a group of testers.

You surely do know what you remember. Unfortunately, you can't know what you don't remember .

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 614#357614

Next test version will be available (as far as I can tell) mid of July.

Michael

Well in the end, maybe he can't really tell .

[Graham Banks]

The closest I've come to seeing a Rybka DVD is its picture on the website.

So, you've only received a copy in email attachment. How disrespectfully from Vas after so much you've done for him, he couldn't even send a DVD...
I bet the email was also written by one of his personal assistants and not by him .

We have direct contact with almost all engine authors, including Vas.
Some commercial engines are provided to the testing groups free, others at discounted prices, others we pay the full price for. However, there is no direct pressure on us to test any engine (except the recent ones of questionable origin, all originating from anonymous code).

[hgm]

Although I am also waiting eagerly for the new Arena I can still remember that Michael promised only to send the beta to a group of testers.

You surely do know what you remember. Unfortunately, you can't know what you don't remember .

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 614#357614

Next test version will be available (as far as I can tell) mid of July.

Michael

Well in the end, maybe he can't really tell .

Getting tired, Milos? Have you missed the word 'test'?

Note that a test version of WinBoard is available _always_ !

Now even in Spanish!

[Milos]

Getting tired, Milos? Have you missed the word 'test'?

Oh, I thought all Arena version are test, beta versions. So, you are saying there is actually a stable release version of Arena that doesn't crash, doesn't steel time from engines and then forfeits them, etc???

[Milos]

However, there is no direct pressure on us to test any engine

Sure there is no direct pressure on you to test something, however, there is an (in)direct pressure not to test something .

[Milos]

BTW, Arena is great (yes, I got it free, hence the praise), just testing Alex 2.07a for CCRL with it (no crash, no time forfeit, v2.0.1).

With TCs you use, any GUI would do. However, any serious engine developer needs a GUI that can be used in 10s/game or faster TC. Arena is simply useless there. I doubt anything will change with a new version.
On the other hand WB works just fine.

[bob]

The problem is that your second statement assumes facts without no supporting evidence. IP* and friends _may_ be clones. Or they might not be. There's enough suspicion to not allow them into normal tournaments. But suspicion is not enough to state as fact that they are "illegal clones". For that, one needs evidence, of which we have none to speak of.

Well, I don't state it as a fact. I state as an opinion, like everything I state is always my opinion. Anyway, the point really was that those freetards should stop wheening to get other people to do what they could just as easily (or difficultly, depending on how you look at it) do themselves.

Don't disagree there. Testing time is limited. If someone doesn't care about the ip* family, I certainly see no reason to waste limited resources testing them. Those that do want the results are certainly free to run their own events and post their results whenever they want...

[Roger Brown]

WinBoard has always been unique and a corner of my heart is still reserved for it.

Hello Gabor,


Hmph!

Just a corner?



Later.

[LucenaTheLucid]

Don't disagree there. Testing time is limited. If someone doesn't care about the ip* family, I certainly see no reason to waste limited resources testing them. Those that do want the results are certainly free to run their own events and post their results whenever they want...

Well put Bob. I was thinking of buying a wholesale lot of computers for exactly this purpose. A decent lot of computers might go for under $4000.

[Adam Hair]

I am troubled by the fact that many people have chosen to focus on these engines only because they are so strong. There is many more engines out
there.

The same logic can be applied in your case. You choose not to test (actually not to publicly announce results of your private-private testing, since all of you actually do privately test these engines despite whatever you publicly write) these engines just because they are so strong and there is a real chance they would nullify Rybka's supremacy.

Do you mean me personally or do you mean the testing groups in
general? I believe that those of us who have tested the Ippolit family
and Houdini have actually posted our results. As far as the other
testers go, I have not seen one hint that they have used those engines.
As far as Rybka goes, I have nothing invested in its standing in any
rating list. I believe I said this once before, but I'll say it again. The
gist I get from the testers that would like for these engines to disappear
is that they are worried that many people will quit creating new engines
or stop working on existing engines due to all the focus on these engines
and the people working on them, including commercial engines. I don't know
if that would actually occur on a large scale ( doesn't seem to be
so ), but I can understand the sentiment.

You should understand that this implies suspicion in your motives.
On the other hand you do test Rybka and there is a reasonable doubt (even more than in Ippo case) about the origins of Rybka which directly implies double standards which raises even more suspicion in your motives.

This is a stickier situation. There is not much that I can say personally.
I have not been into computer chess for long, approximately for 1 1/2 years.
It seems to me that Rybka was firmly established before possible
evidence started turning up ( not counting the extreme increase in
strength ). Some people have decided for themselves that Rybka is
fully legit. You call into question why this is so. Perhaps it is for the
same reason some people insist that Ippolit is fully legit; they want it
be legit. I don't know whether either one is legit, though my hunch is
that both are close to being of unethical origins.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be quite honest, you did not apply the same logic back to me.
Do you give a damn about any other engines? You can spout Rybka
back at me all you want to; I don't really care. I would like to know
if you appreciate any other engines out there. From the things you
state, it doesn't seem that you do. If an engine is not 3200 to 3300 elo
in strength, you seem to look down on it with disdain. Why?

Adam