Stockfish for 39 dollars.

[Adam Hair]

Tord, I am not a man unduly interested in money, but....for a reasonable fee I can get for you at least 15 bucks of the package.....
I have some guys at my service with very convincing manners. They are from Serbia and not known for his good character.
Should I send one of them to talk with that person?

Business are business regards


Fern

[Dirt]

I'm one of the other Stockfish developers. I'd like to emphasize that the opinions in this e-mail are my own, and that the two others may or may not agree with me (although I think they do, at least in most cases).

You people need to decide on whether and under what conditions they can use the name Stockfish. I wonder how effective the copyright of a single word is, too.

[Ramiras]

Perhaps it would be more effective to put a case of real Stockfish outside their door and let them smell it for a while!

[michiguel]

Well..... On another note it (the product that is being sold) is indeed a recognition of the engine's and the programmer's skill. I hope they give credit to the creator of the program at their site.

I just watched the video on their website. When the enging pops up, it could be seen the names [ Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba, Joona ] in the button. From that button and the name, it is clear they use the JA compile.
It is very clear that they are not trying to hide anything.

If they provide the JA compile it means tha the engine is plugged and not integrated into a bigger binary. Hence, if they provide the sources with the proper GPL header, I do not see any wrongdoing, except that the publicist is silly.

http://www.chesscentral.com/ProductDeta ... a_7cmc7000

After watching the video and looking at the website, it is a typical "Bookup" line of software with Stockfish as a default engine to process their opening ebooks or give instant analysis. It is implied that somehow you can play against the engine, but this has never been the idea of those positional databases.

From a quick inspection, it is what I thought and it does not look any different from the previous products in concept.

Miguel

[mcostalba]

I'm one of the other Stockfish developers. I'd like to emphasize that the opinions in this e-mail are my own, and that the two others may or may not agree with me (although I think they do, at least in most cases).

You people need to decide on whether and under what conditions they can use the name Stockfish. I wonder how effective the copyright of a single word is, too.

The only thing to decide, for me, is that if someone uses my name to make money without telling me then he is going against me...so I'm going against him: how and when are just implementation details.

Anyhow, Paul Azzurro gave a positive feedback to our requests, so for me the issue is closed. I have nothing more on him.

[michiguel]

I'm one of the other Stockfish developers. I'd like to emphasize that the opinions in this e-mail are my own, and that the two others may or may not agree with me (although I think they do, at least in most cases).

You people need to decide on whether and under what conditions they can use the name Stockfish. I wonder how effective the copyright of a single word is, too.

A word cannot be copyrighted, but trademarked. Since a trademark serves the purpose not to confuse the consumer about the origin of the product, even if Stockfish was a registered trademark, it does not prevent someone to use Stockfish to call stockfish. It would prevent them to call another engine with the name "Stockfish".

Miguel

[Dirt]

A word cannot be copyrighted, but trademarked.

Good to know. So, has Stockfish ever been announced as a trademark? That is, displayed with at superscript TM after it, or whatever else might work?

Since a trademark serves the purpose not to confuse the consumer about the origin of the product, even if Stockfish was a registered trademark, it does not prevent someone to use Stockfish to call stockfish. It would prevent them to call another engine with the name "Stockfish".

Really? I was thinking it showed it came with the authorization of the trademark owner. The law is written primarily for commercial interests and I'm not sure how it applies to free software.

[Cubeman]

I just hope that some one with a bit of know how will create a version for PocketFritz or PocketGrandMaster, I will be prepared to purchase for a small fee.I am not sure if any one in this instance will be able to charge or not but hopefully it gets done with the Stockfish authors permission first.
I have bought a few additional engines in the past for these 2 platforms and think it would be neat to get Stockfish on WM devices, currently it is available on Andriod and Ipod/iphone for free!

[hgm]

Miguel is absolutely right. Trademark protection only forbids the use of the trademark for _other_ products, not the original. Something is only a trademark if it is registered as such with the chamber of commerce (or whichever organization has the local jurisdiction for this). Unlike copyright, which you acquire automatically, under the "intelectual property" laws. You can probably trademark a common word like 'stockfsh', but even then you could not prevent other people selling stockfish (the edible variety) under the name 'stockfish'. There is a 'no conceivable confusion' clause that would allow such dual use of a trademark. (Compare 'Windows'.)

In general, you cannot prevent someone selling something on which you own copyrights, patent or the trademark. If he owns the product, having obtained it in a legal way, he can sell it, and lying about the capabilities is his own business. (His clients could sue him, of course, if the product doesn't deliver what he promised. But that is between him and his clients.) I don't think that even mentioning your name in truthful context can be forbidden. Only when he tells things about you that are not true (rather than about the product) you can file s suit for libel against him.

The only means at your disposal to prevent him doing anything you don't like, is to cut his supply. He cannot make copies without permission from the copyright owner, or manifacture stuff without a license from the patent holder. For GPL'ed stuff you of course granted that permission (irrevokably) beforehand. So if you want to keep control... Think twice before releasing something under GPL, because by doing it, you are giving away your product for free. Also to those who use it in ways that you might not like.

But even then, don't really understand the fuss. Why would it bother you if someone else makes money on something you intended to give away for free anyway? It is not like him selling it does prevent you to distribute it for free. If he is clever enough to make your product reach a new group of people that are not willing to download it for free, but rather pay for it... So much the better, I would think. (And I don't think he would even have to bundle sources with it. The GPL only requires this if you distribute _modified_ versions of the software.) If someone else creates so much synergy between your free product and his commercial one that people are willing to pay him for it... This only makes your own product more valuable.

If someone would bundle WinBoard with a commercial Xiangqi engine, and ask a fat price for it, it would not bother me. I would just see it as an opportunity to get better exposure for it, the advertizement fees being payed by the commercial product. In fact people have asked me on several occasions if they could use micro-Max in a commercial product, and of course I tell them that the license under which I released it does allow this.

[Tord Romstad]

But even then, don't really understand the fuss. Why would it bother you if someone else makes money on something you intended to give away for free anyway?

It does not bother me at all, and I thought I had already made that very clear.

The problem isn't that someone makes money selling something we give away for free, but that they're making untrue or wildly exaggerated claims about the program in order to boost sales, while not making it clear that we in the Stockfish team have nothing to do with the product or the way it is marketed.

Because the guys behind the product understand and respect our views and have agreed to change the way they market it according to our requests, there is nothing more to discuss.