Would you willingly go into this position as White?

[Graham Banks]

[D] r5k1/p4p2/1nP2n1p/4N1p1/3P4/2PB2PP/b5P1/4R1K1 w

Which side would you prefer to play as?

[mwyoung]

[D] "r5k1/p4p2/1nP2n1p/4N1p1/3P4/2PB2PP/b5P1/4R1K1 w"

Which side would you prefer to play as?

As a chess Player.

I prefer the Black side here. White' pawns look very stoppable. Black's A pawn looks very hard to stop because the white side does not have a black squared bishop.

Looks to me black has the only real winning chances in this position, if this position can be won with best play.

[Eelco de Groot]

[D] r5k1/p4p2/1nP2n1p/4N1p1/3P4/2PB2PP/b5P1/4R1K1 w

Which side would you prefer to play as?

Just looking at the position, if I could play 1. Ba6 to stop Black's a-pawn and if 1. ... Bc4 2. Nxc4 - probably that is just woodpushing but then I would prefer to have White. At first sight a case of an edge passer against a central passer that is already at the sixth rank and has a supporting pawn so from that point of view White would be a bit better. Maybe I'm missing something important?

Hah, I read that Mark has the exact opposite view so a good chessproblem from Graham!

Regards, Eelco

[Graham Banks]

[D] r5k1/p4p2/1nP2n1p/4N1p1/3P4/2PB2PP/b5P1/4R1K1 w

Which side would you prefer to play as?

Just looking at the position, if I could play 1. Ba6 to stop Black's a-pawn and if 1. ... Bc4 2. Nxc4 - probably that is just woodpushing but then I would prefer to have White. At first sight a case of an edge passer against a central passer that is already at the sixth rank and has a supporting pawn so from that point of view White would be a bit better. Maybe I'm missing something important?

Hah, I read that Mark has the exact opposite view so a good chessproblem from Graham!

Regards, Eelco

There is a computer chess aspect to this and I'll reveal it.
The game involved helps show, in my opinion, how Rybka is unique to the way that other engines play.
Here is the game:

Rybka 4 w32 - Gull 1.0 [D36]
Visiting A Bygone Era Auckland (1.6), 10.10.2010
[0.21;0.35]

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz 0 MHz
W=16.5 ply; 77kN/s; 41 TBAs; History107.ctg
B=16.1 ply; 1,769kN/s; History107.ctg
1.d4 0.00/0 0 d5 0.00/0 0 2.Nf3 0.00/0 0 Nf6 0.00/0 0 3.c4 0.00/0 0 e6 0.00/0 0 4.Nc3 0.00/0 0 c6 0.00/0 0 5.Bg5 0.00/0 0 Nbd7 0.00/0 0 6.cxd5 0.00/0 0 exd5 0.00/0 0 7.e3 0.00/0 0 Be7 0.00/0 0 8.Bd3 0.00/0 0 0-0 0.00/0 0 9.Qc2 0.00/0 0 h6 0.35/18 38 10.Bh4 0.21/17 1:04 Bd6 (Re8) 0.30/18 57 11.0-0 0.49/15 1:28 g5 (Qc7) 0.28/18 3:14 12.Bg3 0.57/15 33 Bxg3 0.28/17 0 13.fxg3 0.57/15 47 Re8 0.32/16 26 14.Rae1 0.57/14 32 b5 (Rb8) 0.32/16 55 15.e4 (Kh1) 0.84/15 55 15...b4 0.23/16 24 16.exd5 (e5) 0.84/16 42 16...Rxe1 0.00/16 31 17.Rxe1 0.75/16 19 bxc3 0.00/17 53 18.dxc6 0.75/17 41 Nb6 0.00/18 1:13 19.bxc3 0.71/14 17 Be6 (Qd6) 0.00/17 47 20.h3 (Ne5) 0.57/12 36 20...Qd5 (Bd5) 0.00/15 33 21.Ne5 0.43/13 35 Qxa2 0.06/15 59 22.Qxa2 0.42/14 31 Bxa2 0.06/13 0 23.c4 0.42/14 47 Ne8 (a5) 0.12/16 1:06 24.Ra1 1.35/16 39 Bb3 0.27/17 51 25.Ra3 1.34/18 46 Bd1 0.27/18 1:23 26.Kf2 1.29/15 18 Na4 (Kg7) 0.33/15 20 27.Ke3 1.86/14 33 Nb2 (a5) 0.37/15 37 28.d5 (Kd2) 1.86/14 39 28...a5 (Kg7) 0.50/14 51 29.c5 (Kd2) 1.92/17 53 29...Ba4 0.99/13 59 30.Bf1 (Be2) 2.04/16 52 30...Kg7 1.10/13 57 31.Kd4 (Ra2) 2.30/16 54 31...Rb8 (Rd8) 1.29/15 1:13 32.d6 2.83/17 1:37 f6 1.29/14 0 33.Nd7 (c7) 2.98/16 50 33...Rd8 1.46/13 27 34.Kd5 3.07/18 51 Kg8 (Rc8) 1.31/14 1:31 35.Ba6 (Re3) 4.42/13 39 35...f5 2.45/13 1:01 36.Rf3 (Re3) 4.59/13 21 36...Rxd7 (g4) 2.21/13 36 37.cxd7 6.05/16 46 Nf6+ 2.79/14 14 38.Ke6 (Kd4) 6.42/17 57 38...Nxd7 1.92/14 14 39.Rxf5 (Kd5) 6.47/18 1:14 39...Nb8 1.96/15 18 40.Bc8 6.60/18 47 Bc2 (Nc4) 2.41/14 11 41.Rf2 (Kd5) 8.97/17 40 41...Bb3+ 2.96/16 40 42.Ke7 (Kf6) 8.97/17 55 42...Nc6+ (Nd3) 5.42/16 1:07 43.Kf6 (Kd7) 12.25/18 40 43...Nd3 11.92/17 5:23 44.Re2 12.25/19 51 1-0

[Nimzovik]

Please elaborate.

[Graham Banks]

Please elaborate.

Play through the game.
Also note the wildly different evaluations of the two engines during the play from the diagram position, and remember that Gull is no slouch.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Graham Banks]

Please elaborate.

Play through the game.
Also note the wildly different evaluations of the two engines during the play from the diagram position, and remember that Gull is no slouch.

Cheers,
Graham.

PGN format if it helps.

[Event "Visiting A Bygone Era"]
[Site "Auckland"]
[Date "2010.10.10"]
[Round "1.6"]
[White "Rybka 4 w32"]
[Black "Gull 1.0"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D36"]
[Annotator "0.21;0.35"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2010.10.08"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[Source "Banks"]
[TimeControl "40/1500:40/1500:40/1500"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz 0 MHz W=16.5 ply; 77kN/s; 41
TBAs; History107.ctg B=16.1 ply; 1,769kN/s; History107.ctg} 1. d4 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} d5 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 2. Nf3 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. c4 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} e6 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Nc3 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} c6 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 5. Bg5 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nbd7 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 6. cxd5 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} exd5 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 7. e3 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Be7 {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 8. Bd3 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 9. Qc2 {
[%eval 35534,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} h6 {[%eval 35,18] [%emt 0:00:39]} 10. Bh4 {
[%eval 21,17] [%emt 0:01:04]} Bd6 {(Re8) [%eval 30,18] [%emt 0:00:58]} 11. O-O
{[%eval 49,15] [%emt 0:01:29]} g5 {(Qc7) [%eval 28,18] [%emt 0:03:14]} 12. Bg3
{[%eval 57,15] [%emt 0:00:33]} Bxg3 {[%eval 28,17] [%emt 0:00:00]} 13. fxg3 {
[%eval 57,15] [%emt 0:00:47]} Re8 {[%eval 32,16] [%emt 0:00:26]} 14. Rae1 {
[%eval 57,14] [%emt 0:00:32]} b5 {(Rb8) [%eval 32,16] [%emt 0:00:55]} 15. e4 {
(Kh1) [%eval 84,15] [%emt 0:00:55]} b4 {[%eval 23,16] [%emt 0:00:24]} 16. exd5
{(e5) [%eval 84,16] [%emt 0:00:42]} Rxe1 {[%eval 0,16] [%emt 0:00:31]} 17. Rxe1
{[%eval 75,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} bxc3 {[%eval 0,17] [%emt 0:00:54]} 18. dxc6 {
[%eval 75,17] [%emt 0:00:42]} Nb6 {[%eval 0,18] [%emt 0:01:13]} 19. bxc3 {
[%eval 71,14] [%emt 0:00:17]} Be6 {(Qd6) [%eval 0,17] [%emt 0:00:47]} 20. h3 {
(Ne5) [%eval 57,12] [%emt 0:00:37]} Qd5 {(Bd5) [%eval 0,15] [%emt 0:00:33]} 21.
Ne5 {[%eval 43,13] [%emt 0:00:35]} Qxa2 {[%eval 6,15] [%emt 0:01:00]} 22. Qxa2
{[%eval 42,14] [%emt 0:00:32]} Bxa2 {[%eval 6,13] [%emt 0:00:00]} 23. c4 {
[%eval 42,14] [%emt 0:00:47]} Ne8 {(a5) [%eval 12,16] [%emt 0:01:07]} 24. Ra1 {
[%eval 135,16] [%emt 0:00:39]} Bb3 {[%eval 27,17] [%emt 0:00:52]} 25. Ra3 {
[%eval 134,18] [%emt 0:00:47]} Bd1 {[%eval 27,18] [%emt 0:01:23]} 26. Kf2 {
[%eval 129,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} Na4 {(Kg7) [%eval 33,15] [%emt 0:00:21]} 27. Ke3
{[%eval 186,14] [%emt 0:00:34]} Nb2 {(a5) [%eval 37,15] [%emt 0:00:38]} 28. d5
{(Kd2) [%eval 186,14] [%emt 0:00:40]} a5 {(Kg7) [%eval 50,14] [%emt 0:00:52]}
29. c5 {(Kd2) [%eval 192,17] [%emt 0:00:53]} Ba4 {[%eval 99,13] [%emt 0:00:59]}
30. Bf1 {(Be2) [%eval 204,16] [%emt 0:00:53]} Kg7 {
[%eval 110,13] [%emt 0:00:57]} 31. Kd4 {(Ra2) [%eval 230,16] [%emt 0:00:54]}
Rb8 {(Rd8) [%eval 129,15] [%emt 0:01:14]} 32. d6 {[%eval 283,17] [%emt 0:01:38]
} f6 {[%eval 129,14] [%emt 0:00:00]} 33. Nd7 {
(c7) [%eval 298,16] [%emt 0:00:51]} Rd8 {[%eval 146,13] [%emt 0:00:27]} 34. Kd5
{[%eval 307,18] [%emt 0:00:52]} Kg8 {(Rc8) [%eval 131,14] [%emt 0:01:31]} 35.
Ba6 {(Re3) [%eval 442,13] [%emt 0:00:39]} f5 {[%eval 245,13] [%emt 0:01:01]}
36. Rf3 {(Re3) [%eval 459,13] [%emt 0:00:22]} Rxd7 {
(g4) [%eval 221,13] [%emt 0:00:37]} 37. cxd7 {[%eval 605,16] [%emt 0:00:47]}
Nf6+ {[%eval 279,14] [%emt 0:00:15]} 38. Ke6 {
(Kd4) [%eval 642,17] [%emt 0:00:57]} Nxd7 {[%eval 192,14] [%emt 0:00:15]} 39.
Rxf5 {(Kd5) [%eval 647,18] [%emt 0:01:14]} Nb8 {[%eval 196,15] [%emt 0:00:19]}
40. Bc8 {[%eval 660,18] [%emt 0:00:47]} Bc2 {
(Nc4) [%eval 241,14] [%emt 0:00:11]} 41. Rf2 {
(Kd5) [%eval 897,17] [%emt 0:00:41]} Bb3+ {[%eval 296,16] [%emt 0:00:40]} 42.
Ke7 {(Kf6) [%eval 897,17] [%emt 0:00:55]} Nc6+ {
(Nd3) [%eval 542,16] [%emt 0:01:08]} 43. Kf6 {
(Kd7) [%eval 1225,18] [%emt 0:00:40]} Nd3 {[%eval 1192,17] [%emt 0:05:23]} 44.
Re2 {[%eval 1225,19] [%emt 0:00:52]} 1-0

[swami]

Please elaborate.

Play through the game.
Also note the wildly different evaluations of the two engines during the play from the diagram position, and remember that Gull is no slouch.

Cheers,
Graham.

White is certainly a bit better in original position itself. Therefore, I'd prefer white.

Gull made a decisive positional error with Ne8.

a5 was the only way to save, followed by sacrificing f6 Knight for dangerous connected passers.

Never underestimate the power of connected passers (especially that too in center)

[Nimzovik]

ok..... However what is unique to Rybka here?

[Graham Banks]

ok..... However what is unique to Rybka here?

From the many games I observe or play through due to my testing, I notice certain things in the way that some engines play.
For example, Naum 4.2 and its penchant for advancing the pawns in front of its king.
Rybka seems to understand and take advantage of material imbalances better than others, as seen in this game for one example.
Just my opinion.

Graham.