interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

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jdart
Posts: 4366
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

Post by jdart »

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.02.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Future Breeze, Naum 4.1"]
[Black "Ultrapower, Rybka 3"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E01"]
[WhiteElo "2622"]
[BlackElo "2638"]
[PlyCount "41"]
[EventDate "2010.03.01"]
[TimeControl "7200"]

1. d4 {0} d5 {0.00/0 0} 2. Nf3 {0} Nf6 {0.00/0 0} 3. c4 {0} dxc4 {0.00/0 0} 4.
g3 {0} e6 {0.00/0 0} 5. Bg2 {0} c6 {0.00/0 0} 6. Nc3 {0} Nbd7 {0.00/0 0} 7. O-O
{0} b5 {0.00/0 0} 8. e4 {0} Bb7 {0.00/0 0} 9. e5 {0} Nd5 {0.00/0 0} 10. Ng5 {0}
Be7 {0.00/0 0} 11. Qh5 {0} g6 {0.00/0 0} 12. Qh6 {0} Bf8 {0.00/0 0} 13. Qh3 {0}
Nxc3 {0.00/0 0} 14. bxc3 {0} Be7 {0.00/0 0} 15. Ne4 {0} O-O {0.00/0 0} 16. Qh6
{208} Rb8 {0.29/19 460} 17. Re1 {0 (Ng5)} Re8 {0.34/19 93} 18. Bg5 {230} Bf8 {
0.36/21 0} 19. Qh4 {1691 (Bxd8)} Qc7 {0.21/17 101} 20. g4 {0 (a4)} c5 {2.27/14
270} 21. Re3 {0 Ultrapower,Rybka 3 resigns (Lag: Av=0.18s, max=0.4s)} 1-0

This was long time control (120 minutes/game).

19. Qh4 was a very interesting move. Naum played this after a long think, but the PGN doesn't show Naum's score.

After 19. .. Qh4 we have this position:

[D] 1r1qrbk1/pb1n1p1p/2p1p1p1/1p2P1B1/2pPN2Q/2P3P1/P4PBP/R3R1K1 b - - 0 19

and here I think 19. .. Be7 may save Black - White is better but I don't see a win (if there is one, then 19. Qh4 was truly brilliant).

This is a good test position (play Be7, avoid Qc7, Qb6, Qa5). 20. g4! (clearly winning, and itself a nice test) is not too hard to find, but backing up a ply makes it much harder for engines to see.
jdart
Posts: 4366
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

Re: interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

Post by jdart »

Since .. Be7 allows a repetition, I think Rybka 3 is misbehaving on this position in ChessBase because of the repetition scoring bug it has (score shown as 0 when repetition is possible, even when there is a win).

It is not actually so hard, although Arasan loses it then finds it again:

Arasan 12.2 Copyright 1994-2010 by Jon Dart
test be7.epd 1200 -v
Warning: could not open book file
found 5-man tablebases in directory c:\chess\tb
bm Be7
0 0.01 Qc7 +0.12 16072
0 0.01 Be7 +0.20 16092
1 0.01 Be7 -0.08 16138
1 0.01 Qc7 -0.04 16139
1 0.01 Qa5 +0.08 16171
2 0.01 Qa5 +0.08 16173
3 0.01 Qa5 +0.08 16208
4 0.03 Qa5 +0.12 18818
5 0.04 Qa5 +0.28 38598
6 0.09 Qa5 +0.20 80032
7 0.14 Qa5 +0.40 155841
8 0.25 Qa5 +0.40 381482
9 0.45 Qa5 +0.41 915470
10 0.82 Qa5 +0.45 1705331
11 1.51 Qa5 +0.28 3463900
12 2.72 Qa5 +0.18 6560795
13 5.59 Qa5 +0.18 13222218
14 13.82 Qa5 +0.20 34553583
15 21.65 Qa5 -0.16 55614944
15 29.32 Qb6 +0.00 76095368
16 64.79 Qc7 +0.00 163955349
17 84.87 Qc7 -0.48 215592994
17 131.18 Be7 -0.44 319499187
18 140.82 Be7 -0.60 347153687
18 165.40 Qc7 -0.48 417776463
19 182.84 Qc7 -0.97 466062665
19 252.09 Be7 -0.51 664514780
20 288.87 Be7 -0.57 770894955
21 450.89 Be7 -0.48 1244047989
22 735.42 Be7 -0.59 2067714390
2.85M nodes/second.
0 tablebase probes, 0 tablebase hits
6362 splits, average thread usage=4.00
result: Be7 score: -0.59 ++ solved in 252.09 sec. (664.51M nodes)

Be7 a4 c5 axb5 Bxe4

solution times:
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

0 | 252.09

correct : 1/1
nodes to solution : 664.51M
depth to solution : 18.00
time to solution : 252.09 sec.
test complete
mhalstern
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:09 am

Re: interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

Post by mhalstern »

I'm bored and have spent most of the day looking at this. Stockfish likes Be7 and Zappa weirdly Likes Re7, both engines showing Black as worse. Look at this line that I think is best:

After Be7

20 Nxf6+ Nxf6 21 exf6 Bf8 22 g4!

It looks like a forced loss for Black here. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this is correct, then it is hard to see exactly where Black went wrong in the opening. Instinctively, I don't like 13 .. Nxc3, as I think the centralized knight is needed for defense.
jdart
Posts: 4366
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

Re: interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

Post by jdart »

I think you are right about that.

Engines just go bonkers on this game though.

I looked at:
20. .. Be7 21. Nf6+ Nxf6 22. exf6 Bf8 23. g4! h6

[D] 1r1qrbk1/pb3p2/2p1pPpp/1p4B1/2pP2PQ/2P5/P4PBP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 23

and now several engines I tried want to play Bf4 for a long time - when the obvious Bxh6 is winning.
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Eelco de Groot
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Re: interesting playchess game (Naum 4.1-Rybka 3)

Post by Eelco de Groot »

mhalstern wrote: Please correct me if I am wrong.
I could not find anything with Rainbow Serpent so I think there is a bug, especially if Stockfish can find Be7. I did check with free Rybka 2.3.2a ripped from the Peshka application and it, she, agrees with you, although it took quite a while to show a convincing score, almost 1600 minutes but for Rybka this is indicating a lost position:


1r1qrbk1/pb1n1p1p/2p1p1p1/1p2P1B1/2pPN2Q/2P3P1/P4PBP/R3R1K1 b - -

Engine: Rybka 2.3.2a PV-tips32-bit (256 MB)
by Vasik Rajlich

5.00 0:00 +0.07 19...Qa5 20.Bf3 b4 21.Rec1 Qa3
22.Bf6 c5 23.Ng5 Nxf6 24.Bxb7 (6.344) 58

6.00 0:00 +0.12 19...Qa5 20.Bf6 b4 21.Rec1 bxc3
22.Rxc3 c5 23.Rac1 Bd5 24.Ng5 Nxf6
25.exf6 (16.998) 61

7.00 0:00 +0.11 19...Qa5 20.Re2 b4 21.cxb4 Qxb4
22.a3 Qb5 23.Nd6 Bxd6 24.exd6 c3
25.Qg4 c5 (53.323) 61

8.00 0:01 +0.13 19...Qa5 20.Re2 b4 21.cxb4 Qxb4
22.a3 Qb5 23.Bf6 h5 24.a4 Qb3 25.Qf4 (73.465) 63

9.00 0:03 +0.04 19...Qa5 20.Red1 b4 21.cxb4 Qxb4
22.Rdc1 Ba6 23.a3 Qb2 24.Nd6 Bxd6
25.exd6 Rb6 26.Bd8 Rb8 (218.368) 60

10.00 0:05 +0.06 19...Qa5 20.Red1 Qa3 21.Bc1 Qa4
22.Bg5 b4 23.cxb4 Bxb4 24.a3 Bf8
25.Rdb1 c5 26.Nd6 Bxd6 27.Bxb7 (314.172) 62

11.00 0:06 +0.03 19...Qa5 20.Red1 Qa3 21.Bc1 Qa4
22.Be3 b4 23.cxb4 Be7 24.Ng5 Bxg5
25.Bxg5 Qxb4 26.Rdb1 Qa3 27.Be4 (406.069) 63

12.01 0:10 +0.05 19...Qa5 20.Red1 Qa3 21.Bc1 Qa4
22.Bf4 b4 23.cxb4 Bxb4 24.Nf6+ Nxf6
25.exf6 Rbd8 26.Rab1 c3 27.Qh6 Bf8 (676.421) 63

13.01 0:17 0.00 19...Qa5 20.Red1 Qa3 21.Bc1 Qa4
22.Bh6 Be7 23.Bg5 Bf8 24.a3 Qc2
25.Rdc1 Qe2 26.a4 b4 27.Bf1 (1.069.840) 63

14.01 0:36 0.00 19...Qa5 20.Red1 Qa3 21.Bc1 Qa5
22.Bg5 Qa3 23.Bc1 Qa5 24.Bg5 Qa3
25.Bc1 Qa5 26.Bg5 Qa3 27.Bc1 Qa5
28.Bg5 Qa3 29.Bc1 Qa5 30.Bg5 Qa3
31.Bc1 Qa5 32.Bg5 Qa3 (2.330.126) 64

15.01 3:25 -1.84 19...Qa5 20.g4 Ba3 21.Re3 f6 22.Rh3 Re7
23.Bxf6 Rbe8 24.Bxe7 Rxe7 25.Nf6+ Nxf6
26.exf6 Rd7 27.Re1 Bf8 28.Rxe6 Qxa2
29.Re8 Qa1+ 30.Bf1 c5 31.dxc5 h6 (10.881.818) 54


15.02 7:26 -0.49 19...Be7 20.a4 a6 21.Qf4 Bxg5
22.Nxg5 Qe7 23.axb5 cxb5 24.Bxb7 Rxb7
25.Rxa6 b4 26.cxb4 h6 27.Ne4 Qxb4
28.Rea1 g5 29.Qf3 Qb3 30.Qh5 (27.978.861) 64


15.18 11:29 -0.14 19...Qc7 20.a4 a5 21.Qf4 b4 22.Re3 Rec8
23.Rf3 Nb6 24.Nf6+ Kh8 25.cxb4 axb4
26.a5 Nd5 27.Nxd5 cxd5 28.Qxf7 Qxf7
29.Rxf7 (43.297.752) 64

16.01 11:50 -0.18 19...Qc7 20.a4 a5 21.Qf4 b4 22.Re3 Rec8
23.Rf3 f5 24.exf6 Qxf4 25.Bxf4 c5
26.Re1 cxd4 27.Bxb8 Rxb8 28.cxd4 c3
29.Rf4 (44.686.683) 64

17.01 12:41 -0.17 19...Qc7 20.a4 a5 21.Qf4 b4 22.Re3 Rec8
23.cxb4 axb4 24.a5 b3 25.Nd6 f6
26.Bh3 f5 27.Nxc4 Ba6 (47.942.081) 64

18.01 27:47 -0.23 19...Qc7 20.Nf6+ Nxf6 21.exf6 Qa5
22.Re3 c5 23.g4 Bxg2 24.Kxg2 Qd8
25.Rh3 h6 26.Bxh6 Bxh6 27.Qxh6 Qxf6
28.dxc5 Qg7 29.Qf4 e5 30.Qe4 Qf6
31.c6 (104.502.436) 64

19.01 42:35 -0.42 19...Qc7 20.Nf6+ Nxf6 21.exf6 c5
22.Bf4 Qa5 23.Bxb8 Bxg2 24.Bc7 Qxc7
25.Kxg2 cxd4 26.Qxd4 Rd8 27.Qe5 Qc6+
28.Qe4 Qxe4+ 29.Rxe4 Ba3 30.Re2 a6
31.Rae1 Rd3 (155.982.466) 62

20.01 70:07 -1.85 19...Qc7 20.g4 c5 21.Re3 Bxe4 22.Rh3 h6
23.Bxe4 cxd4 24.cxd4 Nc5 25.Bc2 Red8
26.dxc5 Qxe5 27.Bf6 Qe2 28.Bxd8 Qxc2
29.Be7 (239.714.071) 58


20.02 95:38 -0.49 19...Be7 20.a4 a6 21.Qf4 Bxg5
22.Nxg5 Qe7 23.axb5 cxb5 24.Bxb7 Rxb7
25.Rxa6 Nb6 26.Ne4 Nd5 27.Qh6 Qf8
28.Qxf8+ Rxf8 29.Nd6 Rbb8 30.Rc1 Kg7 (347.733.733) 62

21.01 119:48 -0.46 19...Be7 20.a4 a6 21.Qf4 Bxg5
22.Nxg5 Qe7 23.axb5 cxb5 24.Bxb7 Rxb7
25.Rxa6 Nb6 26.Ne4 Nd5 27.Qh6 Qf8
28.Qxf8+ Rxf8 29.Nd6 Rbb8 30.Rc1 Kg7 (440.872.815) 62

22.01 147:11 -0.51 19...Be7 20.a4 a6 21.Qf4 Bxg5
22.Nxg5 Qe7 23.axb5 cxb5 24.Bxb7 Rxb7
25.Rxa6 Nb6 26.Ne4 Nd5 27.Qh6 Qf8
28.Qxf8+ Rxf8 29.Nd6 Rd7 30.Rc1 Rb8
31.Ra5 (547.894.087) 63

23.01 228:09 -0.47 19...Be7 20.a4 a6 21.Qf4 Rf8 22.Bxe7 Qxe7
23.Qh6 f5 24.Nd6 Nb6 25.axb5 axb5
26.h4 Na4 27.Rec1 Ba8 28.Nxc4 Nxc3
29.Rxc3 bxc4 30.Rxc4 Rb6 31.Rac1 (878.575.431) 65

24.01 424:13 -0.74 19...Be7 20.Nf6+ Nxf6 21.exf6 Bf8
22.g4 h6 23.Bf4 b4 24.cxb4 Qxd4
25.Be5 Qd2 26.Red1 Qxb4 27.Bxb8 Rxb8
28.Rab1 Qa3 29.Qg3 Qxg3 30.hxg3 Bc5
31.Rdc1 Bb6 32.Rxc4 (1.639.324.329) 65

25.01 1558:13
-2.20 19...Be7 20.Nf6+ Bxf6 21.exf6 e5
22.Qh6 Nxf6 23.Qh4 exd4 24.Bxf6 Qd6
25.Qxd4 Qxd4 26.Bxd4 a5 27.Rxe8+ Rxe8
28.Bb6 Ra8 29.Rd1 b4 30.cxb4 axb4
31.Rd7 c3 32.Rxb7 c2 (5.544.632.665) 60


best move: Bf8-e7 time: 1625:58.734 min n/s: 60.138 nodes: 5.729.508.205
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan