Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
We don't own a lot of 'weapons' in the U.S. We own hunting 'firearms' and sporting firearms.
There are kitchen knives, and then there are military knives. There are sniper rifles, and then there are Olympic shooting rifles (and oh, that European Biathlon).
The 30-06 is actually a good example of what is now a sporting-only round. It was the standard round for the U.S. military in WW2, but has since been replaced by the 7.62x51 which shoots the same bullet but is a shorter cartridge (it gets the same ballistics by using better powder). So these days, the 30-06 is used mostly for hunting and competition. And yeah, at Mach 2.5, it will outrun any deer.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
The heat issue is just one reason but not the only one. If you read some of the posted references it's not only about our ability to shed heat but it's also about the fact that we have efficient intermediate speeds.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
You can see a demonstration of this on dog sled races in Alaska. The dogs just keep on running. The air temp is so cold that overheating is not a problem, and so they can run almost indefinitely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_T ... d_Dog_Race An Alaskan husky in the Iditarod will burn about 11,000 calories each day; on a body-weight basis this rate of caloric burn is eight times that of a human Tour de France cyclist. Similarly the VO2 max (aerobic capacity) of a typical Iditarod dog is about 240 milligrams of oxygen per kilogram of body weight, which is about three times that of a human Olympic marathon runner.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
You can see a demonstration of this on dog sled races in Alaska. The dogs just keep on running. The air temp is so cold that overheating is not a problem, and so they can run almost indefinitely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_T ... d_Dog_Race An Alaskan husky in the Iditarod will burn about 11,000 calories each day; on a body-weight basis this rate of caloric burn is eight times that of a human Tour de France cyclist. Similarly the VO2 max (aerobic capacity) of a typical Iditarod dog is about 240 milligrams of oxygen per kilogram of body weight, which is about three times that of a human Olympic marathon runner.
A human would have quite a lot of trouble running a marathon at this temperature
So in the dog chess forums, they're having a parallel conversation where they just realized that humans are better at hot temperatures.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
You can see a demonstration of this on dog sled races in Alaska. The dogs just keep on running. The air temp is so cold that overheating is not a problem, and so they can run almost indefinitely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_T ... d_Dog_Race An Alaskan husky in the Iditarod will burn about 11,000 calories each day; on a body-weight basis this rate of caloric burn is eight times that of a human Tour de France cyclist. Similarly the VO2 max (aerobic capacity) of a typical Iditarod dog is about 240 milligrams of oxygen per kilogram of body weight, which is about three times that of a human Olympic marathon runner.
I looked at the typical times and it works out to about 5.375 miles per hour pace over approximately 9 days. However they are not on the trail the entire time - there are some mandatory rest periods including 1 24 hour rest period that is not optional. So this is indeed an impressive feat.
I guess the question is whether a man in ideal weather conditions could beat 1,161 miles in 9 days on foot.
The answer seems to be NO. I saw on the web that Stu Mittleman holds the worlds record for the 1000 mile multi-day run. It took him 11 days, 20 hours 36 min. 56 sec.
It's hard to argue that a man is a better runner than these Husky dogs. I'm sure on a hot day it may be a different story as a big part of the claimed superiority in humans is their ability to shed heat.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
You can see a demonstration of this on dog sled races in Alaska. The dogs just keep on running. The air temp is so cold that overheating is not a problem, and so they can run almost indefinitely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_T ... d_Dog_Race An Alaskan husky in the Iditarod will burn about 11,000 calories each day; on a body-weight basis this rate of caloric burn is eight times that of a human Tour de France cyclist. Similarly the VO2 max (aerobic capacity) of a typical Iditarod dog is about 240 milligrams of oxygen per kilogram of body weight, which is about three times that of a human Olympic marathon runner.
I looked at the typical times and it works out to about 5.375 miles per hour pace over approximately 9 days. However they are not on the trail the entire time - there are some mandatory rest periods including 1 24 hour rest period that is not optional. So this is indeed an impressive feat.
I guess the question is whether a man in ideal weather conditions could beat 1,161 miles in 9 days on foot.
The answer seems to be NO. I saw on the web that Stu Mittleman holds the worlds record for the 1000 mile multi-day run. It took him 11 days, 20 hours 36 min. 56 sec.
It's hard to argue that a man is a better runner than these Husky dogs. I'm sure on a hot day it may be a different story as a big part of the claimed superiority in humans is their ability to shed heat.
You also need to consider that these dogs are pulling a sled. Without that extra load, they could cover the same distance in less days and with fewer stops. And in the Alaskan snow, I don't think any human would be able to race them.
I wonder what Stu Mittleman's time would be if here were pulling a rickshaw?
Uri Blass wrote:I think that Tord does not consider running one mile slightly faster than 8 minutes as running but as jogging.
I get your point
However, there clearly is a different - the articles talked about different gaits for animals and humans and a jog is not a slow run, it's a whole different style of running that conserves energy. I think the point of the articles was that most animals can run faster than humans, but they don't have an intermediate speed that is efficient for them. But we do.
It's not so much about efficiency: It's about being able to keep body temperature down. The primary cooling mechanism for quadrupeds is panting, but panting is not possible while galloping, because the whole body of the animal moves from side to side and the only way to keep the internal organs in place is to synchronize breathing with the steps. Humans can sweat, and that allows them to run fast enough to force most quadrupeds to gallop, and in the long run the quadruped will overheat.
You can see a demonstration of this on dog sled races in Alaska. The dogs just keep on running. The air temp is so cold that overheating is not a problem, and so they can run almost indefinitely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_T ... d_Dog_Race An Alaskan husky in the Iditarod will burn about 11,000 calories each day; on a body-weight basis this rate of caloric burn is eight times that of a human Tour de France cyclist. Similarly the VO2 max (aerobic capacity) of a typical Iditarod dog is about 240 milligrams of oxygen per kilogram of body weight, which is about three times that of a human Olympic marathon runner.
I looked at the typical times and it works out to about 5.375 miles per hour pace over approximately 9 days. However they are not on the trail the entire time - there are some mandatory rest periods including 1 24 hour rest period that is not optional. So this is indeed an impressive feat.
I guess the question is whether a man in ideal weather conditions could beat 1,161 miles in 9 days on foot.
The answer seems to be NO. I saw on the web that Stu Mittleman holds the worlds record for the 1000 mile multi-day run. It took him 11 days, 20 hours 36 min. 56 sec.
It's hard to argue that a man is a better runner than these Husky dogs. I'm sure on a hot day it may be a different story as a big part of the claimed superiority in humans is their ability to shed heat.
You also need to consider that these dogs are pulling a sled. Without that extra load, they could cover the same distance in less days and with fewer stops. And in the Alaskan snow, I don't think any human would be able to race them.
I wonder what Stu Mittleman's time would be if here were pulling a rickshaw?
Do you mean if here were pulling with 15 other men?
I imagine the biggest factor would be that he could only go as fast as the slowest runner, so having to run with 15 other runners chained together would be a serious handicap, even if the chains and sleds were weightless and frictionless.
I think that is an issue with the dogs too. I think there is a strategy in where each dog is placed.
But then, we are forgetting "Forest Gump".
I think the reason that they use so many dogs is so that the dogs are not overly burdened. Maybe with 16 dogs helping as a team they can run close to full speed. I'm sure it's still a big factor, but perhaps not as much as we might think.
Don wrote:I imagine the biggest factor would be that he could only go as fast as the slowest runner, so having to run with 15 other runners chained together would be a serious handicap, even if the chains and sleds were weightless and frictionless.
For humans is exactly opposite. When running in a group they all can even run faster than the fastest guy in the group alone if the group is balanced.
There are many factors that are benefiting when running in a group, from wind resistance, motivation, pace keeping, etc.
Just look at races at 10000m or bicycle races.
