It is finally time to announce:

[diep]

Do each participant have to bring their own Atom-equipped machines or will the site have them (for uniformity)?

If we can get Intel on board then maybe we can get uniformity which would be the ideal. The idea behind using the atom processor at least is to get everyone roughly on the same level and to make the level of hardware in reach of the most people. Anyone can pack a $200 1.6 GHz 8" notebook in their luggage! My goal is to get as many people to attend this event as possible because they do not feel hopelessly disadvantaged by poor relative hardware performance. Also I would like to see authors challenged to do better on lesser hardware and to squeeze more from less. I will at least make sure that there are extra machines available if they are needed.

From here i cannot see how serious you are and probably everyone who once swindled another person already shipped you an email to setup this tournament.

For now it seems to me like another Skinner event. We shall see.

Let's never the less seriously discuss what you propose here.

There is in this forum some persons who have ties with intel and have newer 'beta' versions of that processor. Higher clocked, more cores.

Further it seems intel needs their i3+ cores to compete with the new chip from AMD that's danging away the atom.

We already know from the i3-i7 series it can clock 4Ghz easily,
and in case of a beta chip you will not see the difference between
an 'atom chip' that is a renamed i3 versus the real atom.

I have experience here with diep getting tested by good objevctive
testers at intel testmachines.

They get up to 20% more nps for diep than any similar setup i try
or some guys here in this forum try (the ones not working for intel that is).

It's similar for other manufacturers.

Sales from this platform are crucial to intel and AMD (amd of course had nothing so far but has something now that kicks butt).

So i wouldn't be amazed if th enext 'atom processor' is a renamed modified i3-i5 series with 4 cores or something similar and lower power, as the i* series still can beat the thing AMD offers.

Further there is overclockers and so on.

You are creating conditions here for people to really show up with the latest secret atom processor, without telling you, overclocked to 4Ghz,
which in case of being in fact an i3, it's going to be 4 times faster than todays atom processor.

You'll have to provide the hardware and more important also the time control at which the contest is. In 1997 they showed up with kryotech at -45C to cool single cpu alpha cpu's. They had beta cpu's 633Mhz overclocked to 767Mhz and also realize it was 64 bits, big advantage
for darkthought over a PC back then.

Other participants had the not yet released intel P2 at 300Mhz back then,
which already was a kick butt processor. But you see the difference between the hardware sponsored?

Blitz events at ugly slow processors like the atom is, is going to be not such a funny experience, as openingsbooks will dominate then.

1.6ghz atom processor at a faster time control if we compare it
with world champs 1999 where several participants had a 4 processor Xeon,whiuch clocked up to 500Mhz for some. I joined at bob's 400Mhz processor.

So you're basically going to give to each engine less cpu time per move,
than engines had in world champs 1999 (of course supercomputers you cannot compare with as you can't daily test at supers).

This is not a very clever contest to limit it in this manner.

If you want a hardware limit, pick hardware that's easily affordable.
Say a 6 core processor at 3.4Ghz max and in case the processor has turboboost capabilities you want confirmation it has been turned off in the bios.

Also write down which time control you want to play.

Tournament Openingsbooks are completely dominant at fast time controls
if you just play 1 or 2 games against an opponent.

Further a big problem i see in big tournaments is that having white in the crucial game is tournament decisive for the 2 engines at that point 'the best'.

$150k seems like a lot, by then probably it's 100k euro, a full year salary in case of some guys here, 2 year salaries for most of the clone guys.

What's the first price?

How about clone control?

If there is 100 rybka type clones, then an improved rybka is always going to win a contest of course. If you add 1 thing to rybka, you win every game based upon that from all those clones. If you have your own original engine, this is much tougher.

Vincent

[Graham Banks]

........$150k seems like a lot, by then probably it's 100k euro, a full year salary in case of some guys here, 2 year salaries for most of the clone guys..........

Only 2 years?

[diep]

........$150k seems like a lot, by then probably it's 100k euro, a full year salary in case of some guys here, 2 year salaries for most of the clone guys..........

Only 2 years?

Average IT year salary in Netherlands in 2008 already was 52k euro a year. So that's *everyone* in IT counted.

Also realize employers pay pension and social taxes and usually money to pay for your fuel, or even in some cases provide you a car, all that on top of this salary. Some also get a free cellphone/mobile phone.

Dollar swings a bit right now. It was down to 1.4x dollar an euro and now last time i checked it was again 1.36 dollar an euro.

So 1.5 dollar an euro isn't far away from where it was a few weeks ago.

In short people without many talents get paid pretty well here as compared to North-America and talented people get completely underpaid here.

There is a huge difference between 'systemadministrators' and 'programmers' here in terms of payment. At management level however there is no difference in payment between a manager who manages systemadministrators versus a manager who manages programmers.

That's the interesting observation.

But if i write more on this it's better to start a new thread.
As it gets off topic already.

A tournament like this will not attract many chessprogrammers, but it will attract everyone who just has enough IT skills to clone.

Further it is most interesting to openings book creators this event;
if you play at outdated hardware, they already have extensive experience how to beat engines with openings tricks if they can't search deep enough.

So it'll get a big book contest where the best book with a strong clone will win.

Vincent

[Michael Sherwin]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

[michiguel]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

Michael,

No one will (or even should!) offer any help of any kind before knowing details, and no details will be known if the ball does not start rolling. You are putting the cart before the horse. Your idea of forming a committee is good for many reasons that I won't list now. Name the committee and a chunk of the work will be off your back (and the credibility will skyrocket). Then, you do not even need people to offer any help. The committee will look for it or provide information to you about what is needed or make suggestions. And do not be paranoid or emotional about this!

Miguel

[Michael Sherwin]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

Michael,

No one will (or even should!) offer any help of any kind before knowing details, and no details will be known if the ball does not start rolling. You are putting the cart before the horse. Your idea of forming a committee is good for many reasons that I won't list now. Name the committee and a chunk of the work will be off your back (and the credibility will skyrocket). Then, you do not even need people to offer any help. The committee will look for it or provide information to you about what is needed or make suggestions. And do not be paranoid or emotional about this!

Miguel

Hi Miguel,

Good advice! I name Miguel A. Ballicora to be the head person of the committee and to be in charge of determining the time and space requirements for the event. Robert Hyatt to take the lead with determining the rules that govern the event. Charles Robertson to guide the hardware necessities and requirements. These individuals can name others to the committee as they see fit! As soon as the committee and I have worked out the necessary logistics to hold the event I will contact YSU to see if they are interested. If that does not work out then I will pass that decision to the committee to find a location.

[Michael Sherwin]

Okay, here is my final declaration. If the committee that I've chosen forms or an acceptable variation of it (or full ACCA participation) then fine, I will make sure that the money is there for the event. I will also contact YSU on the behalf of the committee as I am closest. The committee can also make contact if they choose. If YSU does not pan out then the committee can choose the location.

If the committee does not form then the event is cancelled. I am willing to put up the money for this event to happen and that should be enough in and of itself to get the ball rolling!

If the event goes forward then my wishes are that the the following sections be included:

1. A world championship tune-up with unlimited, but, on site hardware.

2. A uniform hardware world championship.

3. Some variation events including Shogi and maybe Go as well.

4. Possibly a human versus human event also with some nice prizes.

...

I bet that had I offered to bring this competition over to Europe that a committee would already be formed and eager to get started! Am I wrong?

[Michael Sherwin]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

Michael,

No one will (or even should!) offer any help of any kind before knowing details, and no details will be known if the ball does not start rolling. You are putting the cart before the horse. Your idea of forming a committee is good for many reasons that I won't list now. Name the committee and a chunk of the work will be off your back (and the credibility will skyrocket). Then, you do not even need people to offer any help. The committee will look for it or provide information to you about what is needed or make suggestions. And do not be paranoid or emotional about this!

Miguel

Miguel, I 'love' you as I think of you as one of the good guys! And I have refrained from commenting upon your use of the word emotional as pertains to me because it is just a simple misinterpretation of what has lead to certain responses by me. I have written many times here at Talkchess about my almost total lack of emotion and that I use intellect to simulate emotion when it seems appropriate. My intellect told me that people would be emotionally excited about my offer and that support would build quickly. My intellect was wrong about this and therefore my response has been one of being intellectually dismayed. Thats all.

It seems to me that someone connected to the TV show Supernatural has been reading here as this years character Sam has been modeled exactly after my post about my condition. Sam has lost all emotion and does not quite understand his brothers emotional responses to various situations. He gets it, because, he did understand before he lost his soul, but now he not only does not understand, he doesn't even really care. However, he realizes that the problem (although logically it does not seem like a problem, it seems better) lies with him and he therefore is trying to use his intellect to fake showing emotional things like empathy and compassion and caring. Sam does not even get angry, he does go on a verbal attack simulating anger sometimes when his intellect tells him that he should be angry about something. His whole character is 100% exactly as I have posted about myself. Too much so to be mere coincidence. If you want to know me then just watch Sam's character on this years Supernatural. Of course he's younger and better looking, but, that is the way of TV.

So, I am trying my best to do this event on an intellectual level as I believe it would be a good thing. However, I could walk away from it in a heartbeat if my intellect keeps telling me that not enough people really care, because in reality I really do not care either. So people need to get on board this 'train' soon or I'll be getting off.

[michiguel]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

Michael,

No one will (or even should!) offer any help of any kind before knowing details, and no details will be known if the ball does not start rolling. You are putting the cart before the horse. Your idea of forming a committee is good for many reasons that I won't list now. Name the committee and a chunk of the work will be off your back (and the credibility will skyrocket). Then, you do not even need people to offer any help. The committee will look for it or provide information to you about what is needed or make suggestions. And do not be paranoid or emotional about this!

Miguel

Miguel, I 'love' you as I think of you as one of the good guys! And I have refrained from commenting upon your use of the word emotional as pertains to me because it is just a simple misinterpretation of what has lead to certain responses by me. I have written many times here at Talkchess about my almost total lack of emotion and that I use intellect to simulate emotion when it seems appropriate. My intellect told me that people would be emotionally excited about my offer and that support would build quickly. My intellect was wrong about this and therefore my response has been one of being intellectually dismayed. Thats all.

It seems to me that someone connected to the TV show Supernatural has been reading here as this years character Sam has been modeled exactly after my post about my condition. Sam has lost all emotion and does not quite understand his brothers emotional responses to various situations. He gets it, because, he did understand before he lost his soul, but now he not only does not understand, he doesn't even really care. However, he realizes that the problem (although logically it does not seem like a problem, it seems better) lies with him and he therefore is trying to use his intellect to fake showing emotional things like empathy and compassion and caring. Sam does not even get angry, he does go on a verbal attack simulating anger sometimes when his intellect tells him that he should be angry about something. His whole character is 100% exactly as I have posted about myself. Too much so to be mere coincidence. If you want to know me then just watch Sam's character on this years Supernatural. Of course he's younger and better looking, but, that is the way of TV.

So, I am trying my best to do this event on an intellectual level as I believe it would be a good thing. However, I could walk away from it in a heartbeat if my intellect keeps telling me that not enough people really care, because in reality I really do not care either. So people need to get on board this 'train' soon or I'll be getting off.

I never read anything about any condition of yours... sorry. In any case, I chose wrong words. The right word is "impulsive". Do not be impulsive as in rushing to make decisions. I got that people were excited, but you cannot expect a lot more. Things take time, that is what I wanted to say.

Miguel

[michiguel]

I have been fretting over the cloning issue lately. With that much money at stake I can imagine that someone (or many someones) that are cloners will try to take prizes making the event a battlefield. I can even see lawsuits coming out of this. I forget how ugly the world can be sometimes. If I make the tournament open source only, then half or more of the authors that would have shown up, won't. No one has stepped forward to offer any help on any important issues like cloning or time controls or setup or anything. I have deposited a first installment towards the prize fund in an account that I can use to ACH transfer to one of my small investment accounts that I will be using to hold the prize fund. I will do the transfer when the check clears. There will then be over $12,000.00 in that account when the transfer is done. People should feel more confidant that I am serious at that time.

Once I send the account statement to Steve B. then I expect the ACCA to become active (Charles posted an affirmative to participate) in helping to arrange and govern this event. I can hardly go to YSU all by myself with out knowing an iota of the requirements for such an event. If no one qualified steps forward to help then I will not go this alone and the event will be cancelled. I have a sneaky unfounded suspicion that there might be someone at the ACCA that does not want this event to happen! Here's to hoping that I am wrong about this!

Michael,

No one will (or even should!) offer any help of any kind before knowing details, and no details will be known if the ball does not start rolling. You are putting the cart before the horse. Your idea of forming a committee is good for many reasons that I won't list now. Name the committee and a chunk of the work will be off your back (and the credibility will skyrocket). Then, you do not even need people to offer any help. The committee will look for it or provide information to you about what is needed or make suggestions. And do not be paranoid or emotional about this!

Miguel

Hi Miguel,

Good advice! I name Miguel A. Ballicora to be the head person of the committee and to be in charge of determining the time and space requirements for the event. Robert Hyatt to take the lead with determining the rules that govern the event. Charles Robertson to guide the hardware necessities and requirements. These individuals can name others to the committee as they see fit! As soon as the committee and I have worked out the necessary logistics to hold the event I will contact YSU to see if they are interested. If that does not work out then I will pass that decision to the committee to find a location.

I am flattered Michael, and I would love to help, but I am not qualified. I never organized any event of this kind and I have not been to any! If you want me to be in a committee to offer advice and comments, we can talk about it, but I would be learning more than helping. Why don't you try to talk to Charles and Bob in private. If they are not willing to head an advisory committee, they may suggest someone else.

Miguel