Don wrote:
Please don't take my statement out of context.
Hello Don,
May I ask for the same respect in terms of my statements? I have NEVER asserted, stated, alleged that Rybka is a clone of Fruit. Take your time and play back the tape. Hit the stop button when you get to that part.
Don wrote:
Every program benefited from Fruit because it was a trail-blazer. Your assertion is that Rybka is so strong because it's a clone of Fruit which does not explain why it is so much stronger than Fruit.
Perhaps you have me confused me with someone else? Repeating something which is not true will not somehow make it so. Incidentally, you agree that all programs benefited from Fruit. What we seem to be debating is the quantum of that benefit. In your statements you claim that it is very little. I am merely asking for the proof of that. You seem to believe that merely asking the question means I am asserting something.
Don wrote:
When I say that there is nothing of any real importance in Fruit the context is the fact that Rybka is far stronger than Fruit - it's just no contest. So what I am calling things of of "real importance" is whatever it is that makes Rybka so much stronger than Fruit.
I fail to see how I am taking you out of context but alright....
Don wrote:
What you need to explain is how Rybka can be so much stronger than Fruit and yet claim that it is really nothing more than a clone of Fruit and that Vas did nothing but make a copy of something. That is the assertion that you have yet to talk about.
(a) Where did I make this claim? I see, if you keep saying it then somehow it will morph to become true. You make an assertion. I ask for proof and before you know it, I am the one asserting all sorts of things in your mind.
(b) Again with the assertion thing. Don, you plastered persons as being emotional and responding to weak arguments but you are failing to supply anything substantially different. What happens is that you probably hear a voice which is questioning some article of faith that you hold dear and mistake the question for someone attacking Vas or his accomplishments. Really?
I am going to envy the writer of a strong chess program? Why? I am not in that game at all. I might as well envy Messi his footballing genius. At least that game I pretend to play.
(c) I cannot explain why Rybka is stronger than Fruit. I am not technically qualified or able or intelligent enough. Do you recall me asking you to explain precisely the source of that strength difference? Apart from simply asserting that it exists? Or indeed, anyone so willing.
Don wrote:
You seem to believe that all you have to do is take the currently existing strongest program and then just add a few hundred ELO and you have created the new strongest program in the world without having to do any work. That's why it's impossible to take you seriously.
Oh boy, now you are hurting my fragile feelings. So you refuse to take me seriously. I admit that I was contemplating suicide for a moment but I think I will pass. For the record, seeing that you are someone who simply states and believes and asserts and tells me what I believe (which I think is arrogant) let me tell you where I am:
I believe that Vas is a gifted programmer. I believe that in Rybka he has created a monstrously strong program that is dominating computerchess at the present moment. I believe that I live at an extremely fruitful (pun intended) time in computerchess when engines such as yours and Crafty and Critter and Gaviota are free to enjoy.
I believe that there has been more smoke than can be reasonably justified or understood, particularly when with a few lines of code Vas could have conclusively discredited all the supposed clones/derivatives once and for all.
That is what I believe and what I have always wanted - a clearing of the air. So you can stop telling me what I believe or what I am trying to say.
I have said it.
Later.