Helping all other UCI engines.

[De Vos W]

Paranoia from one of the Rybka-Mafia members:

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 19:37
It seems unlikely that any other engine will be able to compete head-to-head with the
cluster anytime soon, so Rybka will almost certainly be dominant one year from today. What may change is Rybka's position relative to
other commercially available engines. This will depend mostly on how much time Vas puts into releasable engines, as opposed to
working on the cluster, cloud Rybka, and consulting for elite GMs. Call me Archimedes...


By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:04 Edited 2010-12-05 21:07
It's very likely that a two tiered market will develop; Freely and
commercially available UCI engines stronger than the current R4, and private engines that are much stronger. Vas will probably stay
comfortably ahead of the other private engines for the foreseeable future. Vas can also stay ahead in the commercially available UCI
engines if he wants to, but only at the expense of helping all the other UCI engines develop more quickly. It should be noted that the
rapid recent gains in freely (and commercially) available engines is due to two sources; Tord's Stockfish effort, and the reverse
engineering of Rybka.

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:29
I'm sure the developer of critter is both a top notch programmer and a skilled algorithm
designer, but it's harder to be a pioneer than to take advantage of previous work. It will be interesting to see the pace of development
when other engines reach the level of Rybka 4, assuming that Vas doesn't release another version anytime soon. Call me Archimedes...



My question is, why so many posers here stand behind these destroyers of computer-chess advancement?

[K I Hyams]

Paranoia from one of the Rybka-Mafia members:

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 19:37
It seems unlikely that any other engine will be able to compete head-to-head with the
cluster anytime soon, so Rybka will almost certainly be dominant one year from today. What may change is Rybka's position relative to
other commercially available engines. This will depend mostly on how much time Vas puts into releasable engines, as opposed to
working on the cluster, cloud Rybka, and consulting for elite GMs. Call me Archimedes...


By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:04 Edited 2010-12-05 21:07
It's very likely that a two tiered market will develop; Freely and
commercially available UCI engines stronger than the current R4, and private engines that are much stronger. Vas will probably stay
comfortably ahead of the other private engines for the foreseeable future. Vas can also stay ahead in the commercially available UCI
engines if he wants to, but only at the expense of helping all the other UCI engines develop more quickly. It should be noted that the
rapid recent gains in freely (and commercially) available engines is due to two sources; Tord's Stockfish effort, and the reverse
engineering of Rybka.

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:29
I'm sure the developer of critter is both a top notch programmer and a skilled algorithm
designer, but it's harder to be a pioneer than to take advantage of previous work. It will be interesting to see the pace of development
when other engines reach the level of Rybka 4, assuming that Vas doesn't release another version anytime soon. Call me Archimedes...



My question is, why so many posers here stand behind these destroyers of computer-chess advancement?

If you exchange emails with Vas Rajlich, you come away with the impression that he is a personable guy. At least two of our members seem to place what I consider to be undue importance on that fact and are willing to fight a rearguard action on his behalf.

[hgm]

Why is it paranoia to suppose it is easier to catch up to the existing state of the art than to break new ground yourself?

That seems just common sense to me...

Or is anything spoken by a member of the 'Rybka Mafia' paranoia by definition?

[Guenther]

Paranoia from one of the Rybka-Mafia members:

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 19:37
It seems unlikely that any other engine will be able to compete head-to-head with the
cluster anytime soon, so Rybka will almost certainly be dominant one year from today. What may change is Rybka's position relative to
other commercially available engines. This will depend mostly on how much time Vas puts into releasable engines, as opposed to
working on the cluster, cloud Rybka, and consulting for elite GMs. Call me Archimedes...


By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:04 Edited 2010-12-05 21:07
It's very likely that a two tiered market will develop; Freely and
commercially available UCI engines stronger than the current R4, and private engines that are much stronger. Vas will probably stay
comfortably ahead of the other private engines for the foreseeable future. Vas can also stay ahead in the commercially available UCI
engines if he wants to, but only at the expense of helping all the other UCI engines develop more quickly. It should be noted that the
rapid recent gains in freely (and commercially) available engines is due to two sources; Tord's Stockfish effort, and the reverse
engineering of Rybka.

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:29
I'm sure the developer of critter is both a top notch programmer and a skilled algorithm
designer, but it's harder to be a pioneer than to take advantage of previous work. It will be interesting to see the pace of development
when other engines reach the level of Rybka 4, assuming that Vas doesn't release another version anytime soon. Call me Archimedes...



My question is, why so many posers here stand behind these destroyers of computer-chess advancement?

Your permanent agenda, obsession, defamation and delusion
is a shame for this forum.
One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

[Milos]

One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

Oh, we'll miss you a lot, especially your great contributions...

[De Vos W]

Paranoia from one of the Rybka-Mafia members:

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 19:37
It seems unlikely that any other engine will be able to compete head-to-head with the
cluster anytime soon, so Rybka will almost certainly be dominant one year from today. What may change is Rybka's position relative to
other commercially available engines. This will depend mostly on how much time Vas puts into releasable engines, as opposed to
working on the cluster, cloud Rybka, and consulting for elite GMs. Call me Archimedes...


By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:04 Edited 2010-12-05 21:07
It's very likely that a two tiered market will develop; Freely and
commercially available UCI engines stronger than the current R4, and private engines that are much stronger. Vas will probably stay
comfortably ahead of the other private engines for the foreseeable future. Vas can also stay ahead in the commercially available UCI
engines if he wants to, but only at the expense of helping all the other UCI engines develop more quickly. It should be noted that the
rapid recent gains in freely (and commercially) available engines is due to two sources; Tord's Stockfish effort, and the reverse
engineering of Rybka.

By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:29
I'm sure the developer of critter is both a top notch programmer and a skilled algorithm
designer, but it's harder to be a pioneer than to take advantage of previous work. It will be interesting to see the pace of development
when other engines reach the level of Rybka 4, assuming that Vas doesn't release another version anytime soon. Call me Archimedes...



My question is, why so many posers here stand behind these destroyers of computer-chess advancement?

Your permanent agenda, obsession, defamation and delusion
is a shame for this forum.
One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

Bye....

[tomgdrums]

One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

Oh, we'll miss you a lot, especially your great contributions...

Hey Glenn Beck,

You never answered my question. What IF you are wrong? Just asking?

[alpha123]

One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

Oh, we'll miss you a lot, especially your great contributions...

Hey Glenn Beck,

You never answered my question. What IF you are wrong? Just asking?

Hey Graham Banks,

Then yay he's wrong, feel good about yourself.

Peter

[tomgdrums]

One cannot open this forum anymore without running into your hatred propaganda.
Bye for another three months ... without that bullshit.

Oh, we'll miss you a lot, especially your great contributions...

Hey Glenn Beck,

You never answered my question. What IF you are wrong? Just asking?

Hey Graham Banks,

Then yay he's wrong, feel good about yourself.

Peter

I asked my question not cause I care too much either way. But I am always flabbergasted at how much certain people are SO SURE of what they say when castigating other people.

Even though in this never ending issue of clones or no-clones, NO ONE seems to have the cold hard facts. I personally don't what to think but I also know that I tend to listen people who are less adamant and arrogant about their views. And that frame of mind does make me feel good about myself. So thanks!

[Tom Barrister]

The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:

1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.

2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).

3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.

4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.

5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.

6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?

7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.

I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?